What value do you use for your orphans and widows?

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What value do you use for your orphans and widows?

Postby forfear on Thu Jun 12, 2008 3:07 am

Hi!
Its been sometime i've actually had a real question to post? Did not find adequate search results on this in the forum.
This is an advanced stylesheet question though.

What values do you use for orphans and widows?
e.g. 1,2, 3?

What tags do you assign this to? your H1, H2, P tags or Body tag?


I am currently trying this out on my Printed Word output, and using it to precent glossary terms and defintions being orphaned at the bottom of the page.

PS. Orphans and widows refer to lines of text and paragraphs at end or top of each printed page break....I do not refer to women without husbands and kids without parents. :)
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Re: What value do you use for your orphans and widows?

Postby wclass on Thu Jun 12, 2008 3:55 am

For Word output I don't think it makes any difference. In Word, "widow/orphan" is a flag, either on or off, you cannot say how many lines it should leave together. I think you can do that in in Framemaker. For Word, if the flag is set, then it won't leave one line by itself either at the top or the bottom of a page. My experiments show that this is always on in my Word output no matter what I set in the style sheet. I suspect it's because I have set that as a default in my Normal.dot.

In general, I would only set the flag on body or text paragraphs, as headings are usually single lines so it won't make any difference. It will only operate on the lines within a paragraph - it does not look at the next para. What you really want for the Glossary output is to set the "GlossaryPageTerm" style (which is usually one line so is not affected by widow/orphan flag) to have "keep with next" set, but I can't see how to do this from Flare. I set it in post-processing.
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Re: What value do you use for your orphans and widows?

Postby KevinDAmery on Thu Jun 12, 2008 5:16 am

wclass wrote:In general, I would only set the flag on body or text paragraphs, as headings are usually single lines so it won't make any difference. It will only operate on the lines within a paragraph - it does not look at the next para.


I would, however, apply the "mc-page-break-after: avoid" setting for headings. This basically does the same thing as Word's "keep with next" setting so you don't end up with a heading sitting all by its lonesome at the bottom of a page.
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Re: What value do you use for your orphans and widows?

Postby wclass on Thu Jun 12, 2008 5:32 am

apply the "mc-page-break-after: avoid" setting for headings

Thanks - I've learnt something. That parameter does set the "Keep with next" in Word. I tested with the style "GlossaryPageTerm" and all is fine.
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Re: What value do you use for your orphans and widows?

Postby forfear on Thu Jun 12, 2008 6:16 pm

Thanks Kevin. you got it spot on with the solution! I applied it to my text and it all looks tip top.

Thanks wclass...the widows and orphans don't work for word output. thanks!
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Re: What value do you use for your orphans and widows?

Postby forfear on Fri Sep 12, 2008 5:08 pm

KevinDAmery wrote:
wclass wrote:In general, I would only set the flag on body or text paragraphs, as headings are usually single lines so it won't make any difference. It will only operate on the lines within a paragraph - it does not look at the next para.


I would, however, apply the "mc-page-break-after: avoid" setting for headings. This basically does the same thing as Word's "keep with next" setting so you don't end up with a heading sitting all by its lonesome at the bottom of a page.



So is this what i should do in Flare 4?

Set mc-page-break-after
for my headings

also i think hyphenation should also be disabled for headings. Really important or you'll have hyphens in headings all the time which is rather unusual.
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Re: What value do you use for your orphans and widows?

Postby forfear on Fri Sep 12, 2008 5:11 pm

There is another setting in for Breaks called Inside

i wonder what this does in Flare v4...been inundated with projects ...and Flare 4 comes out...argh...upgrading my skills and projects and working on finishing up projects. .oh boy...
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Re: What value do you use for your orphans and widows?

Postby forfear on Mon Sep 15, 2008 4:28 pm

This is what you need to do...ignore my previous post

Its not orphans and widows you want ...:) for heading

its Page-Break-After
set to Avoid

this prevents a heading 1, 2,3 from appearing at the bottom of a page. presto!
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Re: What value do you use for your orphans and widows?

Postby KevinDAmery on Tue Sep 16, 2008 5:46 am

forfear wrote:This is what you need to do...ignore my previous post

Its not orphans and widows you want ...:) for heading

its Page-Break-After
set to Avoid



I thought that's what I said in my first post to this thread....
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Re: What value do you use for your orphans and widows?

Postby bobmoon on Mon Sep 22, 2008 7:34 am

Set mc-page-break-after
for my headings


I also set this for
  • p.IndexHeading, to prevent the index heading letter staying at the bottom of the page and the entries pushing to the following page
  • p.TOC1, to prevent a top-level TOC entry on one page and its sub entries on the following page

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Re: What value do you use for your orphans and widows?

Postby DocuWil on Wed Oct 08, 2008 7:04 am

Reading al your posts:
I have a problem with the following situation. I am building a test protocol and at the same time making a kind of standard with topics in My Templates, snippets, page layouts, and so on.
At the bottom af the page this is happening:
OrphansWidows.png

h3 : orphans:2, widows:2, page-break-after:avoid
p.Action : orphans:2, page-break-after:avoid

I played around with several values, but I don't get it right.
Has somebody a tip for me?
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Re: What value do you use for your orphans and widows?

Postby forfear on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:39 am

How about setting orphans to 4
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Re: What value do you use for your orphans and widows?

Postby forfear on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:40 am

set orphans and widows to (default) and leave page break after to :avoid (like what you already have done) see what happens.
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