page layouts and page types issues

[cayennep]

Update - this seems to be pretty messed up. Created a new layout, using the defaults (default one only had one page, 'normal').
So new layout has title, l, r, empty etc - which are still not reflected in the page type dropdown.

Got the title page to work (no header, no footer) but the numbering is all skew-whiff: could not get numbering past TOC page, trying all combos.

Finally applied page type = 'normal' in the OTHER, default layout to the first page and THAT works (even tho I copied that page to the new layout and it seems to work on the TOC page, with header + footer + numbering set in toc properties).

I think some things are broken here, this is not really best-practice but I got it working.

Had a blank page inserted before title page, still not sure how I fixed it BUT the title page is not / was not using the right page type. It has a header w/ logo, and page numbering.

I know I've come across these before I can't remember how to solve - tho I suspect this one is different.

Title page has a header and page number/footer - which are only on the 'Normal' page in the page layout. So it seems it's not even using the page I specified.

I've tried all the break options - none, chapter, section - but still can't get rid of those.

Also see there are all sorts of 'page types' to select from, but they are not specified in my layout so not sure what they would do?

Can anyone provide some simple best-practice for this? It's really not explained in the help. Should be straightforward (moreso than this) but I can't tell what's happening, and just want to know how to do this.

eg, create a page in page layout and apply it in the toc? The normal page is using the header + logo and page numbering, so that's correct. What do I need to do to have a title page that does NOT use these? I've used empty and title from the dropdown selection, but don't understand why those are even there, since they don't exist in my page layout.

[Dee Vincent-Day]

OK, you have asked a lot of questions here. I will tell you what I did to create page layouts and can assure you that they work.

First rule I applied was to only have one of each page type I require in the page layout set.

I do not have any proxies in my page layouts. I create a topic page with the proxy on it and add that to the table of contents and apply a page layout to it. Indeed I do not put much of anything in the page layout set. Just logos and frames along with the variables required to produce headers and footers.

I have different page layout sets and can apply any of these to my toc items.

I created "branded page layout online". This contains a title page and a normal page. There are no left or right layouts. This is ideal for pdf output that is going to be read online. Select the title page layout for your document cover and Normal for subsequent pages.

Then I created "branded book page layout print". This contains one of each page type and is used for publications going to print. Each section (chapter) starts with a first page then continues with normal this is a default setting so all you need to do is specify the chapter break in the properties of the heading in the TOC than select the page layout set you want to use then the first page option from the list of page types. You will not see the correct list of page types until you have selected the page layout set you wish to apply to the section.

Some content needs to print on A4 Landscape therefore I have a page layout set for A4 landscape and apply that to sections such as appendices or tables. I then change back to the A4 portrait layout on the next section, when I want to change the orientation.

Finally, because I use a mixture of page layouts I always apply properties to each entry of the table of contents. In this way I do not get unexpected results when I build the project.

One other tip is that you can select page layouts in the local toolbar when viewing a topic in print layout view. This allows you to see the topic almost as if printed.

I use page layouts a lot and they are one of the features that make me love Flare so much.

I hope this helps you. If you would like more help please message me.

[johnnygreen]

I'm afraid that I've alrways regarded Page Layouts as one of Flare's big weaknesses, and I've always had issues with numbering and empty pages. I'm trying to put together some form of cogent PDF for my employers to review (although, mercifully, the final output will be in HTML5), and, on this occasion, I seem to have a spare blank page that I can't get rid of - if I don't use any 'Chapter Breaks', then it simply appears at the front of the PDF, which is not acceptable. So I then put a 'Chapter Break' on my 'Copyright' page that follows the Title page - this then moves the blank page in front of the 'Copyright' page, and after the 'Title' page, which is an improvement. However, after several days trying, I just cannot get rid of this floating blank page - whatever I do, it seems that it pops up somewhere.

I don't think that there's any point in giving all the settings at this stage - I just wondered if you might give me some other pointers that I might try out first. I'm using Left and Right Page Layouts for my main content, but single page layouts for the Title and Copyright layouts.

Thanks.

[johnnygreen]

By the way, I'm using Flare 10. Were there any bugs related to Page Layouts that might have been ironed out by Flare 2017?

[Rene Severens]

Hi,

As far as I have been using the same pagelayout in flare 8,9,10,11,12, seen no errors.

I have created a page layout with 4 page types inside. It contains a "T"itle, an "E"mpty page (used for backside of frontpage and this layout contains only a footer for a few short lines of text), a "R"ight page connected to a topic with a tocproxy to show the table of contents), and a "F"irst page type, for each new chapter.
To create the pagelayout, I used the Pagelayout editor ONLY for adding the page types to the pagelayout.
Then I opened the created file in notepad and added the frames. When doing this in the Page Layout editor, Flare will not update the changes correctly in the file and you will get very strange results.

For what I did, I ended up with this, (information inside frames is stripped for Company reasons):

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<!-- Note: Manually set BackgroundRepeat to "stretch" for images. This value is not provided by MadCap Flare -->
<PageStyles>
<Page Name="TitlePage" Width="800" Height="800" Padding="1in" PageSize="A4" PaddingLeft="0" PaddingRight="0" PaddingTop="0" PaddingBottom="0" PageType="title" BleedBottom="0" BleedTop="0" BleedRight="0" BleedLeft="0">
<Frame A...="" Anchors="" />
<Frame B...="" Anchors=""/>
</Page>
<Page Width="800" Height="800" Padding="1in" PageSize="A4" PaddingLeft="0" PaddingRight="0" PaddingTop="0" PaddingBottom="0" PageType="empty" BleedBottom="0" BleedTop="0" BleedRight="0" BleedLeft="0" Name="PublicationPage">
<Frame C...="" Anchors="">
<Content>
...
</Content>
</Frame>
</Page>
<Page Width="800" Height="800" Padding="1in" PageSize="A4" PaddingLeft="0" PaddingRight="0" PaddingTop="0" PaddingBottom="0" PageType="right" BleedBottom="0" BleedTop="0" BleedRight="0" BleedLeft="0" Name="TableOfContentsPage">
<Frame D...="" Anchors="" />
<Frame E...="" Anchors="" />
<Frame Anchors="">
<Content>
...
</Content>
</Frame>
</Page>
<Page Width="800" Height="800" Padding="1in" PageSize="A4" PaddingLeft="0" PaddingRight="0" PaddingTop="0" PaddingBottom="0" PageType="first" BleedBottom="0" BleedTop="0" BleedRight="0" BleedLeft="0" Name="TopicPages">
<Frame F...="" Anchors="" />
<Frame G...="" Anchors="" />
<Frame H...="" Anchors="" >
<Content>
...
</Content>
</Frame>
</Page>
</PageStyles>

Next, to be able to USE this , you MUST keep to the Flare defaults when creating the TOC.

Start with a frontpage topic and connect it to the "T"itle page of the pagelayout

Note that for the "E"mpty page in the pagelayout no topic needs to be created. It will show the text (content) of the pagelayout empty page , as defined in the used frame(s). This is the backside of the frontpage in this case.

The second topic in the TOC is a topic that contains a tocproxy and is connected to the "R"ight page of the page layout.

Next the Chapters start and these will all get a "F"irst page type. ONLY set a chapter break at the FIRST topic or book that start a chapter and DO NOT apply chapterbreaks on topics inside a book. These topics will inherit from the start topic. So on the properties of subtopics in the TOC check that no chapter break is set and all other options are cleared.
On the first topic or book for a new chapter, set breaktype to chapter break, pagelayout to the created pagelayout and at page type select the matching pagetype , "F"irst.

For page type Title, set Auto-end on left page to Enabled, to get the backside of the frontpage generated.
For all other page types, set auto-end on left page to disabled.

Note that I only use topics that start with a h1 and there are no other headings used. positioning in the TOC will automatically convert to h2, h3, when needed and I used an autonumbering for the chapter numbers.

If you compare this with your setup, maybe you can solve the issues you are having.

Greetings,
Rene Severens

[johnnygreen]

Thanks for the full reply. I'll certainly give your suggestions a try.

[Dee Vincent-Day]

I have not had any problems with page layouts and find them much easier that trying to achieve the same thing in Word.

The advice above is good and if you stick to the rules you should not have any problems.

Only difference is I have a page layout set where my empty page contains the text "this page deliberately left blank". this is for a book layout where I want my new chapter to start on the right hand side.

[johnnygreen]

I note that you say "To create the pagelayout, I used the Pagelayout editor ONLY for adding the page types to the pagelayout." Well, I've been using the editor to create all sorts of headers and footers. This may have had an impact, I suppose, but nothing in the headers and footers is causing a page throw. I've managed to push the 'rogue' empty page to the end of the Contents, so that the empty page is now the 'first' page of the 'Introduction' - I can tell this by the footer it is picking up - the 'Introduction' proper starts on the page after this (a left hand page) - it looks a bit odd, but if I spend any more time on these blessed page layouts, I'll be sacked!

[ajturnersurrey]

I recognise your frustration, but I guarantee that time spent getting a solid page layout is well worth it, compared with the 'faff every time' that you will experience each time you rebuild a target if you are forced to stop when it is still not quite right.

Suggestions for some of the issues you are having:

1. You say that your defined page layout types don't appear in the page type dropdown. In your TOC, if you check the properties of a page where the page layout changes, on the printed output tab, the page type dropdown should offer pages available in the page layout type selected above. Do you have the right page layout selected there?

2. Random white pages appearing. I have had these occur for a few different reasons you may wish to check, if you haven't already:
(i) an overly large image or table (maybe only a fraction too large) may not fit in the body frame of the page type selected, in which case Flare will try moving onto the next page to see if it can fit there....
(ii) a header style which insists on a page break before or after - check your stylesheet for the definition of styles used just before or after the 'random' blank page
(iii) mis-selection of Auto-end on 'left' page as 'Enabled' (on the properties of a page for a TOC item where the page layout changes, on the printed output tab) when it shouldn't be.

[johnnygreen]

I'm not totally sure how I got rid of the 'blank page' issue - but one thing I did was dispense with Left and Right layouts and just use Normal (the printed document only needs generating for review and is not the primary source of ouput anyway), dispense with Chapter breaks (I have decided to go without numbering, so I only need Page Layout breaks), and change my Heading 1 style to 'avoid' page-break-before. This now seems fine. I've just opted to keep it really simple, but that will do for now.

Thanks for all the helpful suggestions.

[cayennep]

I'm still/again having trouble with page layouts not doing what I say.
Coming into someone else's setup, with no time to start over for this release so not sure what all is coming into play.

I kept getting a blank page before the title page, used an old version of their page layout and fixed that. No chapter or any kind of break for the page, but had to set one, define the page as Title type, then turn off the break. Which seems odd, but seems to have worked.

Without the coding suggested here, it would be great to have some heuristics about this. I feel like I have to reinvent each time, maybe something changes in Flare (+ forgetting), but I always have to fiddle with these.

[ChoccieMuffin]

I have a vague recollection that having two body frames on the First page made a mess of things. I'm sure others might find this jogs their memories so you can get a clearer answer, but take a look at that First page..