Whose help is this anyway?

[picard2bridge]

Earlier writers in this topic have explained the issue well, time has passed, yet Madcap seem not to be taking note.

I have recently purchased Flare, with the Dotnethelp output option as a major criteria in the decision, but I find that feature is a lame duck that my client doesn't want to use because it's so heavily branded with the identity of someone other than them. It's a complete show-stopper which reflects badly on Madcap, and unfortunately reflects badly on me for having recommended the product. As previous people in this thread have suggested, it's probably really simple to remove the splash screen and give us the ability to change the title of the resultant file. Down the track we'd like more control over the look and feel of the Dotnethelp output, but this will do for now. Pretty please?

Clive.

[mikejp]

I don't feel that you should expect any progress from MadCap on this one. There's (1) A truely tragic blindspot within the company, and (2) A desire to do other stuff instead.

What other stuff? Well, wouldn't you try to build a target that uses Silverlight before Adobe does the same thing using AIR? Whatever, don't hold your breath waiting. And if both companies try to brand their new targets as Madcap has this one, only Adobe has the brand awareness for the faintest chance of success.

Whatever MadCap are really doing - And how would I know? - I sure hope they finally wake up. Do I really want to to go back to Adobe's UK product pricing (just look at Framemaker!) or here today, gone tomorrow product support (RoboHelp)? You bet I don't!

Still, on current performance, would you like to bet the farm on M$'s ability to deliver the tools for the job in a timely manner? Perhaps sorting out this viewer wouldn't be such a bad idea after all!

As you read this pls. remember: Only friends are this rude...

[picard2bridge]

Mike, you may well be right, but I dream of a world of peace and harmony, where sheep are free to cross the road unharmed and software developers..., well, you get the idea.

So I grimly hang on to the faint hope that if we protest enough, they will listen, especially if we keep pushing the argument that they are behaving like Adobe, the would-be behemoth from which Madcap seem to hell-bent on distinguishing themselves. But the message applies to developers everywhere: If you're going to be audacious enough to advertise something as a feature, then for heaven's sake, make it work in a way that is useful anf reflects the needs of the users. </rant> <(for now!)>

[mikejp]

Somehow, MadCap got sold on the idea that the viewer could be used as a marketing, or brand-awareness tool, an idea that is both out-and-out wrong (users aren't authors) and destructive (see previous posts in this thread).

You, and I, can probably take one look at any document or help system and say with 90% certainty which tools were used to create it. Just like a software developer can recognise which libraries were used to place the UI controls in an application. \"Powered by..\" is not a bad phrase. What else is needed?

The current nonsense is both patronizing (I don't believe authors are stupid) and a gift to nay-sayers. How much unnecessary fun is that?

Come to think of it, I hate writing posts like this too, because I really don't believe MadCap's stupid either. Just painfully misguided on some of the simple stuff.

[NorthEast]

I'm using WebHelp, and I chose not to use DotNetHelp precisely because of the branding - it's far too imposing and isn't professional looking. It's what I'd expect to see if I'd used a cheap bit of shareware, not a professional tool.

[Marc]

Inspired by one of Lisa's posts, I did the following in my C:\\Program Files\\MadCap Software\\MadCap Help Viewer V3\\HelpViewer.app\\Resources\\Images folder:

- Replaced About.bmp with my company's logo.
- Replaced MadCapBackground.bmp and MadCapBackground1.bmp with a single gray pixel.

Although some MadCap logos remain in the folder, it seems they are gone from the DotNet Viewer. My company's logo displays at startup. It also displays when I call the Help > About command (and that logo clears to the left without being chased by the MadCap logo). When no help is open in the Help Viewer, the panel is gray; the MadCap logo is gone.

Yes, MadCap's name still appears in the title bar and my project name does not, but I think I can live with that. Yes, the Viewer is still far from perfect (one example, selecting Help > Help Community takes you to a forum that doesn't exist). But at least my users won't get confronted with those darn logos. (Don't get me wrong. I like the logo. It just doesn't belong in a distributable viewer.)

What is more troubling is -- as others have pointed out -- MadCap's treatment of this issue, which is a very real issue. Many (including my powers-that-be) have called this issue a showstoper for DotNet Help. So wake up MadCap! No one wants their users confronted with your logo. It's that simple. This is one area where it would be good for you to following Adobe's lead. Adobe Reader is not this obtrusive. No Adobe splash screen at startup. My file name in the titlebar (with Adobe's name trailing it). The Adobe items on the Help menu at clearly marked as Adobe items. The weak responses from MadCap support in this forum (\"I have sent your comments to our Developers\") are unacceptable as this thread approaches its first birthday. If your not planning on fixing this, say so. And then stop making DotNet Help a part of your sales pitch.

[RamonS]

One of the arguments MadCap put forward was that the Help Viewer is a 'free' piece of software. As exchange for that the MadCap logo is prominently displayed. Other than that I haven't heard any justification for the current state. I wonder if Flare users would be willing to pay for a clean distributable, but I don't think that would be fair. I also heavily question the point in advertising MadCap to an audience that with a 99.999999999% chance is not interested in any help authoring tool. So the reason provided for the DotNet Help Viewer being adware just doesn't make any sense to me.
I agree with the other comments and I think that with a really simple change MadCap can not only make many people happy, but put tremendously more credibility into a feature that so far makes Flare unique and better compared to other HATs. I think we call can live with a \"Viewer provided by MadCap Inc.\" in the About screen or the application name tagging along with the project name in the title bar.
I also would like to see some action by MadCap on this issue and am surprised that this hasn't happened already. It is one thing when a bunch of tech writers complain about feature X but still use Flare. It is a different spin when tech writers demo DotNet Help to their management for the sake of getting the OK to buy Flare. When the MadCap logo splash screen is the reason why that avenue gets abandoned then none of the supposed reasons have any ground to stand on. I mean, that is the worst tragedy that can happen, loosing sales due to the own advertisement!

[Richard Ferrell]

There is a Strong Chance that the ability to remove the Splash Logo and the Caption will be In Flare Version 4. Due to development Issues I can't confirm anything untill Flare v4 ships. The more people who request it the better the chance it will make it to Flare V4.

The feature request link is listed below

http://www.madcapsoftware.com/bugs/submit.aspx

[KevinDAmery]

The more people who request it the better the chance it will make it to Flare V4.

The feature request link is listed below

And if you've done that already, maybe a nice, polite post card to the CEO of Madcap might help

[mikejp]

What's wrong with taking the Viewer to 3.something, other than resourcing? Why wait for Flare 4, which must come some months after the recent 3.1 release?

To be honest, I was rather hoping madCap would be doing something more radical by then!

[Marc]

The more people who request it the better the chance it will make it to Flare V4.

I have made my feature request. I hope this 5-page, year-old thread adds some weight.

[RamonS]

There is a Strong Chance that the ability to remove the Splash Logo and the Caption will be In Flare Version 4. Due to development Issues I can't confirm anything untill Flare v4 ships. The more people who request it the better the chance it will make it to Flare V4.

The feature request link is listed below

http://www.madcapsoftware.com/bugs/submit.aspx

C'mon, that is bobkus! The viewer is a stand alone application and MadCap could put that fix out way before V4 hits the street. And how many people does it need again to get something changed?

[picard2bridge]

Ramon asked

> And how many people does it need again to get something changed?

Sounds like one of those bad lightbulb jokes. How many MadCap staff does it take to make the DotNetHelp viewer useful? I'd best not propose an answer for fear I might appear ingracious

Clive

[RamonS]

I am sure it takes way less people to change the Viewer than it apparently requires to initiate that change. Says a lot when this thread is the liveliest of any for DotNet Help.
Btw, nice nick name.

[mcousins]

I've found an acceptable work around. I hope this helps some of you guys.

Don't use the MadCap.HelpViewerClient, use the MadCap.HelpViewerEmbeddedClient.

Before:

Code: Select all

using MadCap.HelpViewerClient
....
HelpViewerClient client = new HelpViewerClient();

if (client.TryLoad(pathToHelpFile))
{
client.ShowTopic("topic1");
}

After:

Code: Select all

using MadCap.HelpViewerEmbeddedClient
...
HelpViewerEmbeddedClient client = new HelpViewerEmbeddedClient("My Help System");

if (client.TryLoad(pathToHelpFile))
{
client.HelpSystem.ShowTopic("topic1");
}

This seems to call the non-embedded client, even though it's called the embedded client, and loads the help in the normal DotNetHelpViewer but we can rename the title, change the icon and it disables the MadCap logo splash screen! Don't call .LoadTopic since you don't have an embedded help pane defined.

[RamonS]

Thanks for the tip and welcome to the forums!

MadCap, since the solution is now out, any chance to make that permanent in the viewer? I guess this thread clearly shows that customers do not want the splash screen.

[mcousins]

Thanks for the tip and welcome to the forums!

MadCap, since the solution is now out, any chance to make that permanent in the viewer? I guess this thread clearly shows that customers do not want the splash screen.

I'm just hoping that they don't "fix" the workaround and force the MadCap splash screen for the embedded client as well.

[RamonS]

I guess that will then make this thread even longer. This is really the same as the hacks from RoboWizard to ditch all the RH garbage out of help files. I think that hack was one of the best contributions to humanity and yours is right next to it. It is not that people just don't like it that much, there were a few who outright rejected buying Flare. I really just don't get MadCap's attitude, especially since the arguments brought forward are weak at best.

[picard2bridge]

> I'm just hoping that they don't "fix" the workaround and force the MadCap splash screen for the embedded client as well.

Don't go giving them ideas now, MC!

[BL_N]

I had posted a rather angry item here, but deleted it. Submitted an 'enhancement' request and let it fly there. Only upon cooling down does it occur to me to actually ask -- has there been no change on this?

We will very likely return our product if this is the case, as having this logo in our help is unacceptable, period.

[MikeKatz]

I had posted a rather angry item here, but deleted it. Submitted an 'enhancement' request and let it fly there. Only upon cooling down does it occur to me to actually ask -- has there been no change on this?

We will very likely return our product if this is the case, as having this logo in our help is unacceptable, period.

I read your "angry" reply before you deleted it, and I think you should have left it. It expressed admirably the frustration that I, and I am sure others, have been feeling for so long about this issue.

99.999% of the readers of the content we generate have not the slightest interest in content-development software. There's no benefit to MadCap in keeping this hindrance in. It's NOT tied to a version release, and it's causing them a lot of damage. The much vaunted .Net help format has been dealt a blow by this one petty issue. I know I cannot use it, just because of this, and I doubt many others can.

[NorthEast]

Yep, I'm developing help for a .Net application, and I had to completely rule out DotNetHelp from day one.

Also, if I'd never heard of MadCap, the name and logo would say to me "this help was made using using shareware and bits of selotape".

[KevinDAmery]

The really screwy thing about this is, the only way the end users of the help system would be in any way interested in Madcap products would be if your product was a help authoring tool.



So, uhhhh, who thinks that a) another HAT developer would be using Flare instead of their own product (I wonder how you'd run that past management...) and b) that if they were they'd use another company's help format and c) that they'd want a competitor's logo in their product?

I think someone in San Diego needs to brush up on the principles of marketing, starting with "know your customer."

[BL_N]

I read your "angry" reply before you deleted it, and I think you should have left it. It expressed admirably the frustration that I, and I am sure others, have been feeling for so long about this issue.

99.999% of the readers of the content we generate have not the slightest interest in content-development software. There's no benefit to MadCap in keeping this hindrance in. It's NOT tied to a version release, and it's causing them a lot of damage. The much vaunted .Net help format has been dealt a blow by this one petty issue. I know I cannot use it, just because of this, and I doubt many others can.

It didn't completely disappear. I submitted it in the enhancement request as well. We've had the 'return it or not' discussion and looks like we'll be keeping it, but to be sure .net help is completely and utterly out of the question until they fix this.

Maybe trying to be like Adobe is someone's idea of 'good', but those with a memory will recall Adobe didn't begin doing the 'wrapper' thing until they were many years into being "the" established leader with the portable document format... and getting there did not happen via self-proclaimation. Add to this that even at their most overt, Adobe was never foolish enough to stick something that large and intrusive into things.

Considering I've yet to see a single person on the customer side of the fence wax positive about this, I am left wondering how and why it is that 'the message' isn't getting through.

I don't like thinking MadCap is this foolish. I prefer to think this is some executive's personal preference and they (whomever they are) simply haven't the wisdom to accept that it is NEVER about what YOU like, it is and should be about what your CUSTOMERS like.

Hint: Your customers like not having your logo plastered on their outputs.

[Mike Hamilton]

The people have spoken and MadCap has listened! :0)

The plan right now is to alter the DotNet Help viewer to make it more in line with the requests we have received. One of the biggest problems is the timing. All of our dev resources are turning and burning to get Flare version 4 out so this solution will be for that release {/bracing for stone and bottle throwing}. The good news is that we will try and have this new behavior in the Flare version 4 beta refresh that is coming out next week so that people will be able to test and provide feedback on the implementation.

What will the new behavior be?

There are three common methods to launch a DotNet Help system:
1. In a context sensitive manner from the application.
2. By double clicking an icon.
3. By selecting it from the Start>Programs> menu in Windows.

The existing Flare 4 beta has already turned the splash screen off for example 1 calls above (context sensitive links). For next week’s beta refresh we plan to also disable the splash screen for calls made through example 2 (clicking an icon). The only time that the splash screen will now appear is if someone launches it from the Start menu programs group.