I've had to revert to Flare 3.1

This forum is for all Flare issues related to the HTML5, WebHelp, WebHelp Plus, and Adobe Air Targets
raikeswood
Propeller Head
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2008 9:29 am
Location: Harrogate, North Yorkshire, UK

I've had to revert to Flare 3.1

Post by raikeswood »

Does anyone know any reason my context-sensitive links no longer work when I build WebHelp with V4.0, but when I revert to V3.1 they work again? A few days ago I upgraded to V4.0 and rebuilt my help system, tested the output locally and even tested the CSH API Links from the Build menu. Passed with flying colo(u)rs. However, today when the application was built, the Help no longer works. It finds the frameset and navigation frames, but with a blank content frame. When I rebuilt with V3.1, apart from some CSS glitches, the problem went away. Any ideas why this might be? Any help would be appreciated.
doc_guy
Propellus Maximus
Posts: 1979
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 11:18 am
Location: Crossroads of the West
Contact:

Re: I've had to revert to Flare 3.1

Post by doc_guy »

Did you open a support request with MadCap?

https://www.madcapsoftware.com/support/contact.aspx
Paul Pehrson
My Blog

Image
Richard Ferrell
Propellus Maximus
Posts: 840
Joined: Mon May 01, 2006 10:11 am
Location: Inside California

Re: I've had to revert to Flare 3.1

Post by Richard Ferrell »

Are you making a Java Script call? A URL call? What is the call you are making?

If you are still having the issue, then I would suggest that you open a support ticket.
Richard Ferrell

Certified Madcap Trainer
Image
bbuchko
Propeller Head
Posts: 59
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 1:32 pm
Location: Raleigh, NC
Contact:

Re: I've had to revert to Flare 3.1

Post by bbuchko »

I may be having the same issue. Are you making a direct URL call, such as
.../Output/cisco_candidate/Default_CSH.htm#Portfolios/What%20are%20portfolios.htm

Then, the resulting redirect shows the wrapper but not the topic, and the URL is:
.../Output/cisco_candidate/Default_Left.htm#StartTopic=nullPortfolios%2FWhat%20are%20portfolios.htm|SkinName=Cisco


So it's a V4.0 issue? If that's so, I may need to revert as well. I hope it'll keep all my changes, because I've been making massive updates the past few weeks. Unfortunately, I have to get this working by tomorrow at the very latest.
Bob Buchko
Technical Communicator
Corporate Trainer
Flare Noob
raikeswood
Propeller Head
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2008 9:29 am
Location: Harrogate, North Yorkshire, UK

Re: I've had to revert to Flare 3.1

Post by raikeswood »

Unfortunately I don't have a maintenance contract, so I can't raise a support ticket.
We are using a URL call to a Map ID.

.../web/help/Default_CSH#1008

The software and help are hosted on Force.com PaaS servers (s-controls and static resources for those that know this platform).
RamonS
Senior Propellus Maximus
Posts: 4293
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 9:29 am
Location: The Electric City

Re: I've had to revert to Flare 3.1

Post by RamonS »

Are you sure that the call is OK? It starts off with three dots, it should be one or two. Maybe that is platform specific?
bbuchko
Propeller Head
Posts: 59
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 1:32 pm
Location: Raleigh, NC
Contact:

Re: I've had to revert to Flare 3.1

Post by bbuchko »

I have a maintenance ticket open. I'll share any info once I find it out.

The call's correct so far as I know. That's not the actual URL; I just put the ellipsis in there to signify the rest of the path (since it's inside our firewall, wouldn't have done you guys any good, heh). The links haven't changed and I'm uploading everything the same way I always did. In a strange twist, it works locally but not when I upload it to the server, but my dev team swears up and down they haven't changed anything on their end, so I'm at a loss. I'm just curious what puts the StartTopic=null in there. Might lead to the answer.
Bob Buchko
Technical Communicator
Corporate Trainer
Flare Noob
RamonS
Senior Propellus Maximus
Posts: 4293
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 9:29 am
Location: The Electric City

Re: I've had to revert to Flare 3.1

Post by RamonS »

Here is my guess:
- the developers handle all map IDs as integers
- in order to concatenate the integer with a string a type transformation / type casting is done
- when an undefined integer is type casted into a string the string contents is "null"
=> the call uses a map ID variable that is not initialized with the proper value. It is defined, but at the time of the call has no value (null).

I'm not a developer, but I am developer enough to know that stuff like this slips through the cracks easily. And developers tend to blame the tech writer for anything that has to do with the help. Sometimes they are right (such as with duplicate map IDs), but sometimes they just want to take the easy way out. Implementing help is a boring development task and by many regarded as low priority.

In regards to the URL call, it wasn't for looking at the help content, but for checking the syntax. One slash too many or a dot or whatever else will cause a failure. It's incredible that one character can dismantle the whole system.
KevinDAmery
Propellus Maximus
Posts: 1985
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2007 8:18 am
Location: Darn, I knew I was around here somewhere...

Re: I've had to revert to Flare 3.1

Post by KevinDAmery »

RamonS wrote:In regards to the URL call, it wasn't for looking at the help content, but for checking the syntax. One slash too many or a dot or whatever else will cause a failure. It's incredible that one character can dismantle the whole system.
Well, the alternative is the computer makes its "best guess" - which might result in, ahh, some "entertaining" results :D
Until next time....
Image
Kevin Amery
Certified MAD for Flare
bbuchko
Propeller Head
Posts: 59
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 1:32 pm
Location: Raleigh, NC
Contact:

Re: I've had to revert to Flare 3.1

Post by bbuchko »

That's very possible, Ramon. I don't know enough to check their stuff, so I'm working out my own fix. As a wise man once said, "Mongo only pawn in game of life." :D

Since I'm on a tight schedule, here's my solution for the moment. Instead of linking to topics through the CSH file, I'm linking directly to the StartTopic URL:
/Default_Left.htm#StartTopic=Content/Portfolios/What are portfolios.htm

That seems to work, while the following is still breaking (though it used to work):
/Default_CSH.htm#Portfolios/What are portfolios.htm


Honestly, though, I'm not 100% sure what the drawback is to using the StartTopic link instead of the CSH link. What does the latter method buy me?
Bob Buchko
Technical Communicator
Corporate Trainer
Flare Noob
LTinker68
Master Propellus Maximus
Posts: 7247
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2006 9:38 pm

Re: I've had to revert to Flare 3.1

Post by LTinker68 »

If you remove the spaces from the file name, does the CSH work?
Image

Lisa
Eagles may soar, but weasels aren't sucked into jet engines.
Warning! Loose nut behind the keyboard.
RamonS
Senior Propellus Maximus
Posts: 4293
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 9:29 am
Location: The Electric City

Re: I've had to revert to Flare 3.1

Post by RamonS »

When I compare
/Default_CSH.htm#Portfolios/What are portfolios.htm
with
/Default_Left.htm#StartTopic=Content/Portfolios/What are portfolios.htm
I see that a "Content" directory is added. Since the Default_CSH file and the Default_Left files are in the same directory shouldn't be the csh call be as such:
/Default_CSH.htm#Content/Portfolios/What are portfolios.htm
bbuchko
Propeller Head
Posts: 59
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 1:32 pm
Location: Raleigh, NC
Contact:

Re: I've had to revert to Flare 3.1

Post by bbuchko »

I noticed that, too, but when I tried it, I found that Flare adds the Content directory automatically so it ends up being redundant. I see in the target editor that I can choose whether or not to include Content as a top-level directory, so I'm guessing Flare adds code to the CSH file to add "Content/" automatically if you select that option.

The above call does work locally; I really can't explain why the same exact files in the same directories don't work on the server. It's really frustrating, but if this workaround works, I'm calling it good, heh.

EDIT: Oh, and yeah, Lisa, I tried it without spaces but without any better luck. My developers keep yelling at me about spaces anyway, though, so I need to get rid of them eventually! Just need to find the time to sit down and rename all my files and ensure Flare updates the links correctly. I did notice the target editor has a "Convert filenames to lowercase" option, which is very handy. It also has a "Replace special characters with underscores" option but, sadly, no "Replace spaces with underscores" one. Maybe I'll submit an enhancement request. :D
Bob Buchko
Technical Communicator
Corporate Trainer
Flare Noob
RamonS
Senior Propellus Maximus
Posts: 4293
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 9:29 am
Location: The Electric City

Re: I've had to revert to Flare 3.1

Post by RamonS »

Did you take a look at the server logs on the web server? The log will list exactly what was requested and it should not point to the place where the files really are located (and if it does then the server is either misconfigured or broken). You may also want to check out if there are any access permissions needed to view the pages. Maybe the calls are fine the way they are, just the server was told not to serve those pages.
bbuchko
Propeller Head
Posts: 59
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 1:32 pm
Location: Raleigh, NC
Contact:

Re: I've had to revert to Flare 3.1

Post by bbuchko »

Hmm, oki doke, I'll ask about that. I can access the pages if I remove the "null" from the redirected link and add in the "Content/" folder, though (which is my workaround, linking directly to that), so I don't think there are any access restrictions.

EDIT: You know, that really does kind of point a flashing red arrow at your earlier point about the Content directory, since its spot is where the "null" is appearing. I wonder if maybe my CSH file isn't getting overwritten or something, so that part of the redirect info is not getting added.
Bob Buchko
Technical Communicator
Corporate Trainer
Flare Noob
LTinker68
Master Propellus Maximus
Posts: 7247
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2006 9:38 pm

Re: I've had to revert to Flare 3.1

Post by LTinker68 »

RamonS wrote:When I compare
/Default_CSH.htm#Portfolios/What are portfolios.htm
with
/Default_Left.htm#StartTopic=Content/Portfolios/What are portfolios.htm
I didn't reread the entire post, so this may have been mentioned earlier, but I wanted to point out that you shouldn't use Default_Left.htm in your CSH calls. You should use Default_CSH.htm in CSH calls. The URL will change to Default_Left.htm when it gets to the target page, but the switching of files is part of how Flare handles CSH calls and it doesn't work if you call the URL directly using Default_Left.htm. I had problems with that when I was trying to include links to MadCap's KB in posts and finally had to ask Rick in Support about that.
Image

Lisa
Eagles may soar, but weasels aren't sucked into jet engines.
Warning! Loose nut behind the keyboard.
bbuchko
Propeller Head
Posts: 59
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 1:32 pm
Location: Raleigh, NC
Contact:

Re: I've had to revert to Flare 3.1

Post by bbuchko »

Yup, I had Default_CSH.htm in my original calls and it's redirecting to the Default_Left.htm URL with the StartTopic=null in it.

Now, I'm just linking directly to /Output/target/Default_Left.htm#StartTopic=Content/Topic.htm and it seems to be working fine, so I'm sticking with those links for the moment.

If you can explain a little more about the benefits of calling up files through the CSH file, I'd appreciate it. I'd like to eventually figure out a way to fix my output so I can link to my in-context help the "correct" way but, with my workload, I'll probably stick with the status quo unless there's a real value-add (go go corporate catch phrases! :wink:).
Bob Buchko
Technical Communicator
Corporate Trainer
Flare Noob
LTinker68
Master Propellus Maximus
Posts: 7247
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2006 9:38 pm

Re: I've had to revert to Flare 3.1

Post by LTinker68 »

bbuchko wrote:If you can explain a little more about the benefits of calling up files through the CSH file, I'd appreciate it.
See the examples in this post --> http://forums.madcapsoftware.com/viewto ... 067#p40067. Basically, you have to use the _CSH.htm file if you're calling to a specific topic in the help.
Image

Lisa
Eagles may soar, but weasels aren't sucked into jet engines.
Warning! Loose nut behind the keyboard.
bbuchko
Propeller Head
Posts: 59
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 1:32 pm
Location: Raleigh, NC
Contact:

Re: I've had to revert to Flare 3.1

Post by bbuchko »

Heh, I did use that format, Lisa. It's breaking my links for some unknown reason, although they used to work before I upgraded to 4.0 (I'm not convinced that it's the problem, but the timing makes it a suspect).

For the moment, I'm not having any trouble linking directly to topics using the format I gave in my last post. From what I can see, the CSH file benefit is that, if I decide to (for example) remove the Content folder from my path, the auto-generated redirect can be updated without my developers having to change their hardcoded links.

It's a nice benefit, but for the moment, I don't have the time to get it working. My workaround does the trick for now.

Thanks everyone for the tips! I'll let you know if I eventually get the CSH redirect working.
Bob Buchko
Technical Communicator
Corporate Trainer
Flare Noob
raikeswood
Propeller Head
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2008 9:29 am
Location: Harrogate, North Yorkshire, UK

Re: I've had to revert to Flare 3.1

Post by raikeswood »

I believe it is related to 4.0. Our CSH links have worked for the best part of a year. Then I upgraded to V4.0 and they stopped working. I've now reverted to V3.1 and the all work again. Nothing has changed in the application code during any of this. When we get time we will have to investigate this and find a solution before I can use the Flare 4.0 features. :(
raikeswood
Propeller Head
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2008 9:29 am
Location: Harrogate, North Yorkshire, UK

Re: I've had to revert to Flare 3.1

Post by raikeswood »

Has anyone got an update on this issue? We're really stuck here and can't get the CSH to work. Any advice would be appreciated. :D
bbuchko
Propeller Head
Posts: 59
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 1:32 pm
Location: Raleigh, NC
Contact:

Re: I've had to revert to Flare 3.1

Post by bbuchko »

Well, I've had my direct links (see the previous posts in this thread) in my app for a few weeks and they're working fine. The downside is that I can never alter the directory structure or filenames, but then again, I couldn't really alter them in my original call, which went through the CSH file.
Bob Buchko
Technical Communicator
Corporate Trainer
Flare Noob
yancypants
Jr. Propeller Head
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 11:20 am

Re: I've had to revert to Flare 3.1

Post by yancypants »

Well, I had my context sensitive links working until I brought the project into Flare 4.0. Now I am getting the same error as others. I took the project back to Flare 3.1and now the CSS is screwed up. Seems to drop the one I originally created. I was hoping to find a solution, but it looks like it will be a headache for a bit.
oldhousegeek84
Propeller Head
Posts: 44
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:38 am

Re: I've had to revert to Flare 3.1

Post by oldhousegeek84 »

I'm having the same problem. I built *ALL 12* of my help systems... And when called from the product, only an empty frameset appears or else a blank page.

Truly, I don't feel like mucking around with the code to make my help systems work. I don't have a support contract, either, but someone from Madcap might like to look into this problem.

Back to 3.1... :evil:
oldhousegeek84
Propeller Head
Posts: 44
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:38 am

Re: I've had to revert to Flare 3.1

Post by oldhousegeek84 »

Blush. I owe Flare a humble apology. My problem appeared to be the same but turned out to be a network issue on our end. So please disregard my previous cranky post.
Post Reply