2017r2 - update or not?

[NorthEast]

Is anyone else a bit concerned over the release quality of 2017r2?

It's got a lot of seemingly quite obvious bugs, and I can't remember seeing so many comments on these forums where people have had to uninstall an update so quickly.

Most bugs seem related to TOCs, this is what I've noticed so far:
2017 R2 broke all of my TOCs
Keep getting Error "item with the same key"
Flare 2017 r2: Mini-toc proxy stopped working
Menu proxy issues in 2017r2
2017 r2 broke hyperlinking!

Bugs in new features that you don't use yet is less problematic, but these seem to be regression bugs - i.e. stuff you may already be using, but is now broken.


I can't use 2017r2 due to its bugs, and in fact I'm still using v12 because of serious bugs in 2016v2 and 2017r1.
It's now getting awkward telling my colleagues that they can't upgrade for 3 updates / 8 months!
I'm seriously questioning the value of our maintenance plans, if we're delivered unusable software and bugs aren't fixed.

It's great if MadCap will put out more frequent releases, but not if it's at the expense of quality.

[StraygoatWriting]

I had concerns when they announced switching to agile. Every time I've worked in agile environments, it has meant more rushing to get things done and less time spent on testing and quality assurance. Considering Flare isn't exactly the most stable of products to start with, I hope this is just a blip and things will improve.

[NorthEast]

I had concerns when they announced switching to agile. Every time I've worked in agile environments, it has meant more rushing to get things done and less time spent on testing and quality assurance. Considering Flare isn't exactly the most stable of products to start with, I hope this is just a blip and things will improve.

Yeah, Flare has always been buggy, but to date I've mostly been able to work around the bugs, or just not use new features that have issues.

What is more difficult is when you have regression bugs in features you're already using, or serious bugs in core functionality (e.g. the new preview in 2016/2017r1 doesn't work at all for us).

It's getting beyond a joke when I can't install 3 successive updates.

[StraygoatWriting]

What is your issue with the preview? I had the one where PDF preview wasn't working right, but there was some Adobe update to fix that or something (I didn't bother, just fixed the page breaks through trial and error).

Agree, it is not a good situation re: the updates. I've been working in other products lately, but have just started another Flare project and ran into problems. My Flare 2017 won't launch at all after a Windows update, but I suspect that is a registry issue rather than something to do with the Flare update. Hope so, anyway.

[NorthEast]

What is your issue with the preview?

Preview in 2016/2017 doesn't work if you either:
1) Use TFS source control (something I cannot change). Preview doesn't work if your CSS files are checked-in in TFS. It only works when a user has all their CSS files permanently checked-out, but it's impossible for multiple users to have the same file checked out.
2) Use mc-master-page to set master pages in your CSS (something I could change, but would require reorganising how we use master pages in all of our projects).

[RamonS]

I had concerns when they announced switching to agile. Every time I've worked in agile environments, it has meant more rushing to get things done and less time spent on testing and quality assurance. Considering Flare isn't exactly the most stable of products to start with, I hope this is just a blip and things will improve.

Agile is the death of QA. I blame implementation of Agile for this, not the idea itself. One of the points in the Agile Manifesto is "working software over comprehensive documentation". Many interpret that as "no documentation". Requirements no longer get written. Any objections by QA are brushed aside with the argument "we hit it next iteration" which then never happens. Others interpret "Customer collaboration over contract negotiation" as the OK to cram in features and ship at arbitrarily set release dates. Halfbaked features and badly implemented changes get pushed out with the argument "we want to collect customer feedback". Feedback is coming for sure, but rarely is that feedback evaluated and used for improvements....unless you are a big client who can always dangle the threat of dropping subscription.
The rush of accelerated feature delivery favors the opinion of developers. I have yet to come across a manager who questions a developer who claims that the implementation will take a month. When QA states that testing will take a month then it is usually cut to two weeks, because the developers needed more time due to ambiguity and lack of decisions. The idea of pushing the release date or adding that feature in the next release never flies. There is too much pressure to declare a story as "done" when in fact it is far from completed.
Often times top management decides "We are agile now!" without having decision making become agile as well. Product analysts work out three proposals in collaboration with QA and developers. Those proposals are then passed on to management and often sit there for weeks. By the time a decision is direly needed the entire story is forgotten, because sales identified a huge opportunity if the product has feature X which already was promised to the potential customer. So feature X now becomes top priority and of course the other story is needed as well...until that sales opportunity dissolves into thin air and the next must have feature comes on the table. In a rush bad implementations are added, arguing that "it will be a training issue". If the argument is "training issue" then usually the design sucks. Don't throw it over the wall to the support and training department, but toss the junky design and start over. Quoting Mike Holmes "If you do it, do it right the first time", not next iteration or after your feedback system collapsed due to customer complaints.
Agile can work and work well, but only when processes are in place and everyone top to bottom adheres to these processes. Stories that were started need to get finished first and that includes proper QA (test plans, test data, test results, automated regression = a lot of work!). Things get very tricky when such processes were not in place for a long time. Amending or refactoring a feature becomes very risky because the tests for the expected functionality are inadequate or not in place at all. Nevertheless, the same product development rules still apply. The three options are fast, cheap, and good - pick two! Often times fast and cheap are the choices leading to low quality.

I have no idea if that is what happened at MadCap and I won't even bother to ask. My suggestion is that those who are impacted by the bad releases send a letter to MadCap's CEO. Keep it to one page and explain how the bad product quality directly impacts your bottom line and progress. The top brass may only get served up the good news internally, providing a courteous reality check by paying customers can do wonders.

Lastly, my apologies for this lengthy comment. It's complicated and it won't fit into two and a half bullet points.

[ajturnersurrey]

I have a lot of sympathy with the points being made about the downside of agile methodology, but I'd just like to add one point to the list of specific niggles cropping up to date.

The niggle which has been affecting my work since 2017 r2 arrived is to do with pdf preview. After previewing any topic I am unable to build the target next time I try because one of the temp/preview files is locked as in use, even though I have diligently closed the preview, closed the topic and closed Adobe Acrobat to ensure all files must have been released. No amount of waiting I am prepared to endure will cause it to release. The only solution is to Clean Project, close Flare completely and reopen it...

Up to now I have often waited a few months after a new release to let things settle down and maybe get a patch or two before I move on. Because this update was presented as I tried to launch Flare, rather than in a separate email, I was tempted into agreeing to it straightaway. I now believe my previous strategy was a better one, even though it may now take more effort to keep refusing an upgrade, if it keeps being offered every time I open Flare!

[Tatton]

We're having issues with the PDF preview as well. Every time we generate a preview it creates a copy of the page layout file in the folder with the topic. We downgraded to 2017 R1 this morning and manually cleaned up all the duplicates. Luckily they were easy to spot since the Pending Changes screen showed pending adds for 10+ copies of the same file.

[Jess77]

Often times top management decides "We are agile now!" without having decision making become agile as well.

RamonS made so many good points. I'll add to this one because I remember that upper management used to ask for all these reports that could only come from a waterfall system. The product management team would spend days trying to jerry-rig the Agile data to make it conform to the reports that management wanted to see.

Agile can work and work well, but only when processes are in place and everyone top to bottom adheres to these processes. Stories that were started need to get finished first and that includes proper QA (test plans, test data, test results, automated regression = a lot of work!).

We used to joke that the only thing anyone hears after hours of presentations explaining Agile is "two weeks". As in, I can have it in two weeks instead of the two years it will actually take. Seriously, people hear "deliverable functionality in two weeks" and throw out the rest. I've seen it happen so many times.

I was on a team once where they stopped the demos for a while because no one watching them seemed to understand that what they were seeing had to be tested and re-worked. They'd ask for the release a week after the demo.

[dtmenges]

Just rolled back to 2017 just because of the PDF preview problem. Don't need to waste anymore time.

[doc_guy]

In addition to the many problems linked above, I'm having issues with topics that now only show their file name in the TopNav sidebar navigation instead of their topic name. I'm having issues where the "System Linked Header" variable in TOCs is choking when I'm using variables or conditions anywhere in the target topic. It is a disaster.

The sad part is that I was really excited about a couple of features in 2017 r2. We have logged bugs for years about the problems that occur when a topic exists in multiple places in a single TOC. That was reportedly fixed in 2017 R2, but I've had so many problems with the release that I haven't been able to even test that new feature.

I've told all my clients to NOT upgrade to 2017 R2. I strongly recommend you don't either.

[qtxasjo]

Wow, I'm amazed to see all these problems with the R2 release. I must have been very lucky, but I upgraded last week and have not had any issues with it (so far..). On the contrary, the PDF preview which didn't work in R1 is now working again and my build times has been reduced with 75%. The R1 on the other hand was a nightmare.

[agracer]

Has anyone found a fix to the TOC problem?

I have reverted back to an old version of Flare 12. This fixed the problem with my custom topnav skin.

However, I still see the problem in the TOC. I manually corrected the TOC, which fixed the problem in the menu bar. However, the error with the undefined system variable still appears in the sidemenu proxy.

Any ideas?
Thanks!
--Amy

[pdenchfield]

Has anyone found a fix to the TOC problem?

In case it helps: In my tripane project, I found that even after manually removing the extra code in the TOC entry, the error persisted. I had to remove the entire TOC entry, build, add it back, and rebuild. Finally the error went away.

[MadcapMichelle]

I'm finding the responsive layout options frequently cause 2017r2 to stutter, black screen or just crash. Anyone else?

Michelle

[ghillerson]

I've decided to wait, and I'm thankful that messages posted here warned me; we have a new release going out soon, so I can't afford to waste any time working around Flare bugs.

Meanwhile, every time I open Flare, it prompts me to upgrade. Is there a way to disable the nag?

[doc_guy]

I checked the options to see if I could find one, and wasn't able to. I find it rather annoying.

[wclass]

I've decided to wait, and I'm thankful that messages posted here warned me; ...

We are waiting as well - thanks everyone for all your posts about the problems.

[ChoccieMuffin]

I replied to the invite to the webinar about the new release and pointed them at this thread, asking when they were planning on fixing the TOC bugs that have appeared in R2 and that have prevented a lot of users from upgrading. Let's see what happens. It might be worth viewing the webinar (to see what you're missing) and asking there as well when things are going to be fixed. If there's enough noise coming from users perhaps that'll push it up the list of priorities. Squeakiest wheel, an' all that...

[dtmenges]

PDF preview was acknowledged as a bug #130279. Oddly enough it doesn't appear in the 32-bit version which was offered as an alternative. Given the other issues I am going to roll back 2017 and wait for the fix.

[zeddee]

I got a reply from support RE: TOC manipulation via JS et. al. breaking:

The issue that you are experiencing is likely related to the fact that we now actively generate the TOC and menu proxies instead of being flat files like they were in the previous versions.

This change was made to address issues with synchronization of the TOC, Mini TOC, and breadcrumbs in cases when a single topic is linked to multiple locations in the TOC. This also sets up these proxies to scale with merged outputs in future versions.

In order to move our products forward, we often times need to make changes to our output files that can and will effect custom scripting, styling, ect. My apologies for not conveying this information previously.

I think it's fair enough, but it also means don't hold your breath for TOCs getting "fixed". Looks like we'll have to find another way to generate custom TOC menus.

[NorthEast]

I think it's fair enough, but it also means don't hold your breath for TOCs getting "fixed". Looks like we'll have to find another way to generate custom TOC menus.

The change to the menu proxy affects the help I produce (viewtopic.php?f=13&t=28985), so I'm looking at ways to handle this, so scripts are triggered to run after these menus have been populated.

If I get anywhere, I'll post it in the forums - likewise, if you come up with any workarounds, post them too!

[ChrisBradley]

I found another issue with broken TOC's that has not been described here.

In Flare 2017 r2, the TOC is broken when accessed via a CSH link in Tri-pane HTML5 output. When a user selects a CSH link, the help system loads to the correct page, and appears fine. If the user selects any other TOC link, the page does not load. In Chrome the page simply goes blank. In Edge, Microsoft reports a 400 error.

The browser console reports the following error:

Code: Select all

HTTP400: BAD REQUEST - The request could not be processed by the server due to invalid syntax.

When I launch a CSH link from my IDE, the IDE console logs the following error:

Code: Select all

INFO: Error parsing HTTP request header
 Note: further occurrences of HTTP header parsing errors will be logged at DEBUG level.
java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Invalid character found in the request target. The valid characters are defined in RFC 7230 and RFC 3986. 

I reverted to an older build prior to 2017r2 and it worked fine. I downgraded back to Flare 2017 and all builds work correctly.
I should note that I keep my outputs a vanilla as possible knowing that Madcap can break custom code at any time.

I reported this to Madcap in case 112776.

[doc_guy]

Chris - have you reported this to MadCap directly? They don't always monitor the forums, so your best bet is to always file an official bug report for stuff like this.

[ChrisBradley]

Chris - have you reported this to MadCap directly? They don't always monitor the forums, so your best bet is to always file an official bug report for stuff like this.

Yes I have. I am having difficulty getting them to reproduce the issue. But they are aware of the issue.