Setting up lists

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NorthEast
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Setting up lists

Post by NorthEast »

For my project, I wanted to use nested lists and bullets which use different list and bullet styles.

I tried out a few methods of formatting my lists (including creating numerous ol, ul and li classes), but I found that by far the best way to set them up was to use 'complex selectors'. Despite the name, using this made setting up my lists a whole lot easier.

Setting up the styles

For my numbered lists, the first list level has the numbering 1,2,3 and the second level has a,b,c.

To set this up I use the styles:

Code: Select all

ol
{
	list-style-type: decimal;
}

ol ol
{
	list-style-type: lower-alpha;
}
The ol (ordered list) style sets the formatting to use for normal lists, in this case 1,2,3 numbering.
The ol ol style is a complex selector. It sets the formatting to use for a list within a list, in this case a,b,c numbering.

I just use two levels, but say you wanted to define a style for a third level, you'd use ol ol ol.

To add complex selectors in your stylesheet, you'll need to open the CSS file in Flare's text editor and add them there (you can leave the bit between the brackets empty). Once they're in the stylesheet, you can edit the styles in the normal stylesheet editor view - they'll be listed in the (Complex selectors) section.


You can use the same method for bullet lists (ul), e.g.:

Code: Select all

ul
{
	list-style-type: circle;
}

ul ul
{
	list-style-type: square;
}
This sets the first level bullet list (ul) format to use a circle, and the second level bullet list (ul ul) format to use a square.


I also use a complex selector to define the style for a second level bullet list inside a numbered list, e.g.:

Code: Select all

ol ul
{
	list-style-type: square;
}
In the styles above, I've only set the 'list-style-type' format for the number and bullet lists to keep the examples simple. You may also want to include other formatting for your lists - e.g. set indents/margins, font formatting, bullet icons, etc.


Working with lists in the editor

After setting up the list styles, setting up lists in your topics is fairly easy.

- To create a list, click on the List icon.

- To move an item in the list to a different level, just click on the Indent and Outdent icons.


Using paragraphs in lists (for items without numbers/bullets)

If you want a line in the list that doesn't have a number/bullet, you can just use a p tag in the list (without a li tag).

To do this:
1) Right-click the li tag and select Make Paragraph item(s).
2) Press Enter to get a new paragraph, it'll be grouped with the paragraph above it. (If you want it to be separate, right-click the new p tag and select Move Left).
KPeterson
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Post by KPeterson »

Dave Lee wrote:Working with lists in the editor

After setting up the list styles, setting up lists in your topics is fairly easy.

- To create a list, click on the List icon.

- To move an item in the list to a different level, just click on the Indent and Outdent icons.
Dave-

We are cleaning up imported content in Flare and have set up our stylesheet to use complex selectors for our lists as you have suggested here. I have a quick question on how the different list "layers" appear in the toggle blocks in the XML editor (or the Text editor) view. If you are using the Indent and Outdent icons to move items in a list, will items in the second layer of a list still be on an li tag? For example, if I have an unordered list, and then indent several items in that unordered list into their own unorderder list, will these items be on an li tag from the from the first unordered list?

I know it sounds confusing, but hopefully, it makes some sense. I just want to make sure that this is how our lists should appear and that this isn't something we are seeing because of the clean up we are doing on our imported content.

Thanks,

Kristen
LTinker68
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Re:

Post by LTinker68 »

KPeterson wrote:If you are using the Indent and Outdent icons to move items in a list, will items in the second layer of a list still be on an li tag?
Enclosed by an <li> tag, yes. See how the innermost <li> tags are inside a <ul> tag which is inside an <li> tag.

Code: Select all

<ul>
  <li>List 1, line 1</li>
  <li>List 1, line 2
    <ul style="list-style-type: circle;">
      <li>List 2, line 1</li>
      <li>List 2, line 2</li>
    </ul>
  </li>
  <li>List 1, line 3</li>
</ul>
You can set styles for the different elements. You can specify how the innermost <ul> tag behaves by creating a ul ul selector, or you can set the styles for the innermost line item by creating a ul ul li selector, and so on.
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Lisa
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Warning! Loose nut behind the keyboard.
KPeterson
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Location: Fargo, ND

Post by KPeterson »

Thanks for your reply, Lisa! It made sense that the lists should appear this way but we just wanted to make sure that we weren't creating more clean-up for ourselves down the road.

I have another quick question on this same topic. When I am in a list and I want to indent to another list, I sometimes receive a message that the tag cannot be grouped or something like that. Other times the indent only works if I use a blockquote group. I am wondering if anyone else has had this same experience trying to indent a lists within a list. Or if it is just me and I am doing something wrong...
LTinker68
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Post by LTinker68 »

I've gotten that message before, too, but I can't remember what causes it. When you try to indent, are you selecting text or do you just have the cursor flashing on the line with nothing selected? If you have selected text, then you may have inadvertently grabbed the end tag of the previous line item and the start tag of the line item you're on. Make sure you don't have any text selected, then click on the indent button again.
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Lisa
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Warning! Loose nut behind the keyboard.
KPeterson
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Post by KPeterson »

No, I am not selecting text to indent. I just have the cursor flashing on the line I want to indent and then I receive the message about the tag cannot be grouped..blah..blah..blah. Most of the time, I can go into the text editor and move the list tags around to get the lists to look the way I want them to. It is just frustrating that the indent works sometimes and other times...not so well. Like I said, it could be a carryover from our imported content. I will try and pay more attention to the times it works and the times it doesn't.

Thanks again!
ChuckJulian
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Re: Setting up lists

Post by ChuckJulian »

Hi, all,

I'm a complete newbie (this is post #1) and I've been struggling with Complex Selectors. By reading these posts (thanks to all!), I finally constructed some stylesheet code I'd like to share. Below is every combination of UL and OL three levels deep. If you need to go four levels, you're on your own. :D

Code: Select all


ol
{
	list-style-type: decimal;
}

ul
{
	list-style-type: square;
}

ol ol
{
	list-style-type: lower-alpha;
}

ol ol ol
{
	list-style-type: lower-roman;
}

ol ol ul
{
	list-style-type: circle;
}

ol ul
{
	list-style-type: disc;
}

ol ul ol
{
	list-style-type: lower-roman;
}

ol ul ul
{
	list-style-type: circle;
}

ul ol
{
	list-style-type: lower-alpha;
}

ul ol ol
{
	list-style-type: lower-roman;
}

ul ol ul
{
	list-style-type: circle;
}

ul ul
{
	list-style-type: disc;
}

ul ul ol
{
	list-style-type: lower-roman;
}

ul ul ul
{
	list-style-type: circle;
}
I hope this is helpful and submitted properly.

Chuck Julian
Chuck Julian
NorthEast
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Re: Setting up lists

Post by NorthEast »

Just one more tip, for those styles that styles that have the same properties, you can combine them in one definition.

For example, all your 3rd level numbered lists could be defined with:

Code: Select all

ol ol ol,
ul ol ol,
ol ul ol,
ul ul ol
{
   list-style-type: lower-roman;
}

You just separate each style with a comma (but don't put a comma after the last one).
ChuckJulian
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Location: Penacook, New Hampshire

Re: Setting up lists

Post by ChuckJulian »

Thanks, Dave! Great tip. It'll make mass changes much easier, too.
Chuck Julian
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Re: Setting up lists

Post by KevinDAmery »

The one caveat I would have with that approach is Flare's stylesheet editor doesn't handle combined styles very well (or at least it didn't in 3.x - I haven't had a chance to test it in 4.0 yet). So if using the Flare stylesheet editor to modify styles is important to you, you may want to keep them separate. If you prefer to edit your stylesheets in a text editor, though, there isn't a problem.
Until next time....
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ChuckJulian
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Re: Setting up lists

Post by ChuckJulian »

Thanks for the tip, Kevin.

Can anyone recommend a good (free/cheap) CSS editor that at least checks syntax before saving the file? I've been using NotePad, but I'd prefer to know if I've messed up the file before I save it.

Thanks,
Chuck
Chuck Julian
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Re: Setting up lists

Post by KevinDAmery »

I use Flare's internal text editor usually.
Until next time....
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Re: Setting up lists

Post by SteveS »

I'm an advocate for notepad++ :)

Has line numbering, and colour coding of tags etc. Well worth a look.
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AprilC
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Re: Setting up lists

Post by AprilC »

We have the following complex selectors set up in our CSS:
ol ul ol
{
list-style-type: lower-roman;
}

ol ul
{
list-style-image: url('../Images/skin/graphic_bullet_diamond.gif');
}
However, every time we enter a ol ul ol in a topic, it retains the style for the ol ul. Has anyone encountered this? Do you know a way to fix it? Everything in the code looks correct, at least as far as I can tell. Here's an example:
<ol>
<li>asdf</li>
<li>asd</li>
<ul>
<li>asdf</li>
<ol>
<li>asdf</li>
</ol>
<li>asdf</li>
</ul>
<li>asdf</li>
<li>asdf</li>
</ol>
Looks like the file I attached.
NorthEast
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Re: Setting up lists

Post by NorthEast »

Yep, what is happening there is that your ol ul ol defintion is inheriting the properties from ol ul - so it is inheriting the list-style-image property.

So your ol ul ol style will have both properties set - the list-style-type and list-style-image. As the image property takes priority, you'll see the image instead of the numerals.

What you need to do is tell it not to use the image, so you'd have:

Code: Select all

ol ul ol
{
list-style-type: lower-roman;
list-style-image: none;
}

ol ul
{
list-style-image: url('../Images/skin/graphic_bullet_diamond.gif');
}
LTinker68
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Re: Setting up lists

Post by LTinker68 »

Ignore the [ b ] and [ /b ] tags in Dave's code. I think he wanted to bold the style to add but you can't bold in the code tags in the forum.
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Lisa
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pdenchfield
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Re: Setting up lists

Post by pdenchfield »

This thread is very useful. Thanks, Dave, Lisa, and other contributors!

I've noticed that PDFs don't indent <p> tags within lists. WebHelp and other online outputs do the indentation, but not PDF. So I created a print-specific complex selector "ol p" with a margin-left value of 18 points, consistent with our lists (ol, ul, li).

Code: Select all

@media print
{
ol p
{
	margin-left: 18pt;
}
}
In my test topic I added a <p> paragraph within the numbered list (ol) and another <p> paragraph within a nested list that was indented more (ol ol). See the paragraphs "The selected widget does a little dance" (first list level) and "supplementary info" (second list level).

Image

Code: Select all

        <p class="LabelforProcedures">To program the widget </p>
        <ol>
            <li>Select the widget. Lorem ipsum dor lorem ipsum dor lorem ipsum dor lorem ipsum dor lorem ipsum dor lorem ipsum dor lorem ipsum dor lorem ipsum dor lorem ipsum dor lorem ipsum dor lorem ipsum dor lorem ipsum dor lorem ipsum dor lorem ipsum dor </li>
            <p>The selected widget does a little dance. </p>
            <li>Click <span class="UIElementAction">Program</span>. </li>
            <li>Step 3 text bla bla. </li>
            <li>Intro to lettered list. <ol style="list-style-type: lower-alpha;"><li>first lettered item </li><p>supplementary info - will this paragraph indent correctly?</p><li>second lettered item </li></ol></li>
        </ol>
I expected the <p> in the lettered list to be wrongly indented, but it looks fine.

Will my 18pt left margin for an "ol p" complex selector work for all levels of lists?
LTinker68
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Re: Setting up lists

Post by LTinker68 »

pdenchfield wrote:I've noticed that PDFs don't indent <p> tags within lists.
No, by default they're even with the text in the list item. Same as if you pressed Shift + Enter (soft return) to insert a couple of <br> tags (blank lines).
pdenchfield wrote:Will my 18pt left margin for an "ol p" complex selector work for all levels of lists?
It will for ordered lists -- you need to have a "ul p" for unordered lists.
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Lisa
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Re: Setting up lists

Post by pdenchfield »

Awesome - thanks, Lisa!
rmdavidson
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Re: Setting up lists

Post by rmdavidson »

Dave Lee wrote:For my project, I wanted to use nested lists and bullets which use different list and bullet styles.

I tried out a few methods of formatting my lists (including creating numerous ol, ul and li classes), but I found that by far the best way to set them up was to use 'complex selectors'. Despite the name, using this made setting up my lists a whole lot easier.

Setting up the styles

For my numbered lists, the first list level has the numbering 1,2,3 and the second level has a,b,c.

To set this up I use the styles:

Code: Select all

ol
{
	list-style-type: decimal;
}

Any ideas? This is using a Master Stylesheet.

Robin
ol ol
{
	list-style-type: lower-alpha;
}
The ol (ordered list) style sets the formatting to use for normal lists, in this case 1,2,3 numbering.
The ol ol style is a complex selector. It sets the formatting to use for a list within a list, in this case a,b,c numbering.

I just use two levels, but say you wanted to define a style for a third level, you'd use ol ol ol.

To add complex selectors in your stylesheet, you'll need to open the CSS file in Flare's text editor and add them there (you can leave the bit between the brackets empty). Once they're in the stylesheet, you can edit the styles in the normal stylesheet editor view - they'll be listed in the (Complex selectors) section.


You can use the same method for bullet lists (ul), e.g.:

Code: Select all

ul
{
	list-style-type: circle;
}

ul ul
{
	list-style-type: square;
}
This sets the first level bullet list (ul) format to use a circle, and the second level bullet list (ul ul) format to use a square.


I also use a complex selector to define the style for a second level bullet list inside a numbered list, e.g.:

Code: Select all

ol ul
{
	list-style-type: square;
}
In the styles above, I've only set the 'list-style-type' format for the number and bullet lists to keep the examples simple. You may also want to include other formatting for your lists - e.g. set indents/margins, font formatting, bullet icons, etc.


Working with lists in the editor

After setting up the list styles, setting up lists in your topics is fairly easy.

- To create a list, click on the List icon.

- To move an item in the list to a different level, just click on the Indent and Outdent icons.


Using paragraphs in lists (for items without numbers/bullets)

If you want a line in the list that doesn't have a number/bullet, you can just use a p tag in the list (without a li tag).

To do this:
1) Right-click the li tag and select Make Paragraph item(s).
2) Press Enter to get a new paragraph, it'll be grouped with the paragraph above it. (If you want it to be separate, right-click the new p tag and select Move Left).
I've been trying this method listed above as the trial Analyzer broke one of my topics. I told it to restore and nothing happened. It changed my list from numbers then lower-alpha to numbers again despite my having gone into the text editor and pasted in the code above.

It should look like this:

Code: Select all

1. [b]Order Must be printed[/b]

   a. Prints the order before settling checks.

2. [b]Prompt User for Media[/b]
but instead looks like this:

Code: Select all

1. Order Must be printed

   1.  Prints the order before settling checks.

2. Prompt User for Media
Robin Davidson
Technical Writer & Documentation Specialist
STC Pittsburgh Chapter President http://www.stcpgh.org

Flare 7.2 / Windows 7 Pro 64 bit
LTinker68
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Re: Setting up lists

Post by LTinker68 »

rmdavidson wrote:It should look like this:

Code: Select all

1. [b]Order Must be printed[/b]

   a. Prints the order before settling checks.

2. [b]Prompt User for Media[/b]
but instead looks like this:

Code: Select all

1. Order Must be printed

   1.  Prints the order before settling checks.

2. Prompt User for Media
What does the code-behind look like in the topic? Open the topic in the Internal Text Editor and copy-and-paste that entire block of code. Most likely there is an inline style on the sub-item that's overriding the stylesheet setting.
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Lisa
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Warning! Loose nut behind the keyboard.
rmdavidson
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Re: Setting up lists

Post by rmdavidson »

At this point that code is gone. I restarted the topic from scratch about 3 times and played until it got quite close. Right now it's "right" except for the numbers themselves not being bold. I started before lunch and went until 3:30pm...I ended up hand coding a lot of it after playing with Format > List > lower-alpha and trying to Continue Sequences and Indenting and Outdenting things all day and it stopping at number 5 every time and refusing to let me indent after that wanting me to add a tag to a new group instead, which still didn't work. I have no idea what the .hcp stands for...I'm assuming someone else put those in, but they're only indenting text when they appear in the master stylesheet with other things added when it's embedded and every topic that uses them has anywhere from 1 to 9 of them in it...

Here's the much-cleaner-than-what-I-had code that I'm using for now. I thought putting it all in a master and not using paragraph styles would make my life easier, but boy was I wrong. :shock: My brain is totally fried right now.

Code: Select all

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<html xmlns:MadCap="http://www.madcapsoftware.com/Schemas/MadCap.xsd" MadCap:ignoredWords="w" MadCap:lastBlockDepth="7" MadCap:lastHeight="799" MadCap:lastWidth="1044">
    <head><title>Settle Check w/ Exact Change</title>
        <style title="hcp" type="text/css">
p.hcp1
{
	font-size: 12pt;
	font-family: Arial, sans-serif;
}
p.hcp2
{
	font-size: 12pt;
	font-weight: normal;
	font-family: Arial, sans-serif;
}

</style>
        <link rel="stylesheet" href="..\..\..\..\..\..\Primary.css" />
    </head>
    <body>
        <h1>
            <MadCap:keyword term="Button Functions" />Settle Check w/ Exact Change</h1>
        <p class="hcp1"> </p>
        <p><b>Location:</b>  This function is located in Button Maintenance under the drop down Function Menu.</p>
        <p class="hcp2"> </p>
        <p><b>General Info:</b>  This function is very popular among the fast food, quick-serve restaurants, and bars because it acts as a "fast cash" and can assume exact change was given for a specific media defined in the Edit Function Data.</p>
        <h2>Function Description</h2>
        <ol>
            <li><b>Order Must be printed</b>
                <ol style="list-style-type: lower-alpha;">
                    <li>Prints the order before settling checks.</li>
                </ol>
            </li>
            <li><b>Prompt User for Media</b>
                <ol style="list-style-type: lower-alpha;">
                    <li>Will activate a Media Selector.</li>
                </ol>
                <ol style="list-style-type: lower-alpha;" MadCap:continue="true">
                    <li>Use the drop down arrow to decide the media you want.</li>
                </ol>
            </li>
            <li><b>Don't Print Modifier Items with a Zero Price</b>
                <ol style="list-style-type: lower-alpha;">
                    <li>Will only print main items, not the modifiers.</li>
                </ol>
            </li>
            <li><b>Display Sale Total</b>
                <ol style="list-style-type: lower-alpha;">
                    <li>Will show the total sale on the check.</li>
                </ol>
            </li>
            <li><b>Receipt Print Options Group Box</b>
            </li>
        </ol>
        <blockquote>
            <ol style="list-style-type: lower-alpha;">
                <li><b>Always Print Receipt</b>
                </li>
                <ol style="list-style-type: lower-alpha;">
                    <li>Will automatically print a receipt.</li>
                </ol>
                <li><b>Prompt User</b>
                    <ol style="list-style-type: lower-alpha;">
                        <li>Will ask user if they would like to print a receipt.</li>
                    </ol>
                </li>
                <li><b>Don't Print Receipt</b>
                </li>
                <ol style="list-style-type: lower-alpha;">
                    <li>Will not print a receipt at all.</li>
                </ol>
            </ol>
        </blockquote>
        <ol MadCap:continue="true">
            <li>Click <b>OK</b> to save changes.</li>
        </ol>
        <p style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;font-size: 10pt;font-weight: bold;" class="p">
            <p class="numbers" style="font-weight: normal;font-size: 10pt;"> </p>
        </p>
        <h2>Edit Function Data - Like the Settle Check and Settle Multiple checks the option to force the check to be sent before it can be tendered.</h2>
        <p class="hcp2"> </p>
        <p class="numbers">1.  Open <a href="../Function_Overview.htm">Button Maintenance</a>.</p>
        <p class="numbers">2.  Select <b>Settle Check w/Exact Change</b> from the <b>Function</b> drop-down list.</p>
        <p class="numbers">3.  Click <b>Edit Function Data</b> button.</p>
        <p class="numbers">4.  Make the changes and click the <b>OK</b> button.</p>
        <p class="numbers">5.  Click <b>File</b>, then <b>Save</b> or F2 to save the changes made.</p>
        <p class="numbers"> </p>
    </body>
</html>
Robin Davidson
Technical Writer & Documentation Specialist
STC Pittsburgh Chapter President http://www.stcpgh.org

Flare 7.2 / Windows 7 Pro 64 bit
LTinker68
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Re: Setting up lists

Post by LTinker68 »

Ok, first remove the inline style block from your topic -- that was probably just you playing with the paragraph styles, but you don't want style blocks at the top of the topics.

Second, there are some quirks to working with lists, even HTML lists. For example, if you want the whole line to be in bold, including the number, you need to select the <li> tag in the show blocks area at left then click the bold icon to get the whole thing in bold. However, you really should create an li class that has font-weight set to bold, then you apply the class to the li tag.

Another quirk is that if you're in the child list, you have to click the outdent icon twice to get back to the parent list. (If you click it once, you'll be inserting a paragraph inside the child list item you just created.) And, as mentioned, if you click the indent icon, you need to select the format for the new child list, unless you actually do want the child list to use the same number/bullet format.

A properly formatted, three-tiered HTML list will look something like the following. You could cut-and-paste this into the topic code to see the results (although you'd have to create a li.boldList style).

Code: Select all

     <ol>
         <li class="boldList">Order must be printed
				<ol style="list-style-type: lower-alpha;">
					<li>Prints the order before settling checks.</li>
				</ol>
			</li>
         <li class="boldList">Prompt User for Media
				<ol style="list-style-type: lower-alpha;">
					<li>Will activate a Media Selector.</li>
					<li>Use the drop down arrow to decide the media you want.</li>
				</ol>
			</li>
            <li class="boldList">Don't Print Modifier Items with a Zero Price
				<ol style="list-style-type: lower-alpha;">
					<li>Will show the total sale on the check.</li>
				</ol>
			</li>
         <li class="boldList">Display Sale Total
				<ol style="list-style-type: lower-alpha;">
					<li>Will show the total sale on the check.</li>
				</ol>
			</li>
         <li class="boldList">Receipt Print Options Group Box
				<ol style="list-style-type: lower-alpha;">
					<li class="boldList">Always Print Receipt
						<ol style="list-style-type: lower-roman;">
							<li>Will automatically print a receipt.</li>
						</ol>
					</li>
					<li class="boldList">Prompt User
						<ol style="list-style-type: lower-roman;">
							<li>Will ask user if they would like to print a receipt.</li>
						</ol>
					</li>
					<li class="boldList">...</li>
				</ol>
			</li>
         <li class="boldList">Click OK to save changes.</li>
     </ol>
Image

Lisa
Eagles may soar, but weasels aren't sucked into jet engines.
Warning! Loose nut behind the keyboard.
NorthEast
Master Propellus Maximus
Posts: 6398
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:33 am

Re: Setting up lists

Post by NorthEast »

I've noticed that the lists in your example have inline formatting; e.g. <ol style="list-style-type: lower-alpha;">

This inline formatting ("style="...") will take precedence over the styles in your stylesheet, so they need to be plain tags with no inline style; otherwise the list-style-type properties you set in your stylesheet will not be used.

When you format lists in the Flare editor, just apply them as Bullet List or Numbered List; do not use the circle/square/alpha/roman options, as these will insert inline styles.
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