spacing, bullets, and such

[ktbCA57]

I want to create a paragraph style with a bullet.. so i can have a bullet, then text under it, then another bullet.. with the text under each aligned with the text in the bullet like that shown in the image below.

1) i can't get the paragpraph style to add a bullet - the only way i can get a bullet to appear is to set it up as a "list"... however, from another discussion in the forum last week, I understood that when you want text between list items, it's best to set up the a paragraph with the numbering or bullet you need.

when I used the "list" method in this case, I couldn't get the space between the bullet and text under it to change at all... no matter what i did (change' the block settings, etc.)

2) when i apply a change to ANY element.... using the "class editor", the changes either don't take effect or require me to make the setting two times or more

3) sometimes i have to go into the CSs via Notepad to make a change...


Why is this so much trouble? why don't things just change when you change the settings? and also, sometimes the parent tag changes along with the style..

WHAT AM I DOING WRONG.... AGAIN?

btw... here are the settings for the two classes shown in my image...

li._bold_heading_ist
{
color: #000000;
list-style-type: square;
font-weight: bold;
font-size: 10pt;
font-family: Verdana;
margin-bottom: 0;
margin-top: 0;
float: none;
padding-top: 0px;
}

p._bullet_list_text
{
font-size: 9pt;
font-family: Verdana;
text-align: left;
text-indent: 0;
margin-right: 0;
margin-left: 0.43in;
padding-top: 0pt;
line-height: 10pt;
margin-top: 0;
margin-bottom: 6pt;

[KevinDAmery]

Hey there,

To get a paragraph with a bullet using autonumbering, you have to edit the auto number style and tell it to either place a character or an image as the autonumber. The post here should hopefully get you on the right track:

http://forums.madcapsoftware.com/viewto ... ber#p45015

2) when i apply a change to ANY element.... using the "class editor", the changes either don't take effect or require me to make the setting two times or more

The stylesheet editor is a little finicky. I find it works best if you click on another attribute after making a change - that seems to force an update.

As far as the vertical spacing goes, since you mention you are using a list for the bulleted paragraphs there are three places that the spacing can come from:

- the list item (i.e. the li tag)
- the list container (i.e. the ol tag)
- the following paragraph

In HTML, the spacing from these elements all add together - it's not like Frame where it just uses the largest one. Also, make sure that you check both the margin and the padding attributes, including the top and bottom variants of each one.

[LTinker68]

How are you adding the paragraphs between the list items? Are you inserting the paragraph in the line item ("Make Paragraph Item(s)"), or are you creating a single-line list, inserting a paragraph, creating a single-line list, inserting a paragraph, and so on?

[ktbCA57]

Hi Lisa,

I must be using the second method you mention because I have no idea what "Make Paragraph Item(s)" is or how to use it.

and Kevin.. thanks for the help.. I did look at that link you sent (which included info from Lisa).. but i'm not smart enough to figure out about "spans" and such to be able to really follow what the steps would be...

so i'm thinking i might leave this as is for now.. if i can just figure out the spacing issue... and all my settings are at 0 so i'm not sure why the space is happening there.

thanks...

[LTinker68]

Are they actually set to "0px" or are they set to "not set"? Because those aren't the same thing.

And the Make Paragraph Item(s) is an option in the list actions drop-down menu. So if you're in a list, and you're at the end of a line item and you want to insert a paragraph between this list item and the next one, you click the list actions menu drop-down icon and select Make Paragraph Item(s). It will insert a new <p> tag inside the <li> tag, so if you move the <li> tag, the <p> tag goes with it. In that situation, the li and p spacing is set by whatever values you have set for those two tags. So if you have a margin-bottom of 4px on the li tag and a margin-top of 4px on the p tag, then there will be 8px space between the line item and its paragraph. If you don't want that much space, then you need to create a complex selector that indicates how paragraphs should be spaced when they're within a line item. So the CSS might look similar to the following:

Code: Select all

li {
    margin-top:4px;
    margin-bottom:4px;
}

p {
    margin-top:4px;
    margin-bottom:4px;
}

li p {
   margin-top:0px;
   margin-bottom:0px;
}

[ktbCA57]

Thanks Lisa.. I'm going to try that now... sounds like that's what you suggest?

as for the 0px question.. i can't get it to go back to "not set"... :-/ so maybe i'll try to change that in the code.. i just wish i didn't have to keep going back to that!

THANKS AGAIN.. AS ALWAYS.

[ktbCA57]

ok... this "make paragraph item" looked like it was going to work nicely... but,it kept the font format of the bullet (bold).. and even tho I applied the non-bold paragraph class that i created for the indented text, it won't remove the bold.. unless i do it locally... also, the spacing issue is not resolved... :-/

thanks anyway tho...

[LTinker68]

Make a backup of the stylesheet file, then go into the stylesheet file in the project and manually delete all the list-related styles, including complex selectors. Then open the topic in the Internal Text Editor and remove any inline formatting on the lists and paragraphs in this section. Now that you know more about what you need, you can begin modifying the base styles and creating classes when you need them.

Sometimes when people play with styles (especially as they just start learning CSS) they'll keep adding new style attributes without deleting old ones, and some style attributes can cancel each other out or cause undesirable behavior. So if you've been playing with the styles a lot then deleting those styles and starting over will help, especially as you learn more about CSS and learn which styles you want to use and which you don't.

[ktbCA57]

Hi Lisa,

Thanks... yet AGAIN for your input... you are probably right that i've created something somewhere that is causing problems somewhere else.. i guess i'm not getting the concept of how this XML thing helps the process when stuff like this can happen.. but again.. what do i know? I have a couple of problems with the suggestions you gave me however... see below:

including complex selectors

and

remove any inline formatting

1) Not sure what "complex selectors" are or how to recognize them.
2) Not sure how to recognize inline formatting.

Thanks!

[LTinker68]

Complex selectors, once they're created, appear in the Stylesheet Editor. If you have it set to Advanced view and show all styles, there will be a group near the top of the list of styles called complex selectors. Flare has some created by default. Unfortunately, if you want to add your own, you'd have to open the stylesheet file in the Internal Text Editor and manually add them. As for what they look like, they're two or more tags grouped together. In the code block I wrote above, the third block of styles (li p) is a complex selector.

As for inline formatting, those are easier to see if you open a topic in the Internal Text Editor. I'm not sure how inline formatting appears in the show blocks area of the XML Editor, or if it does.

Here is an example of inline styles applied to some text (as viewed in the Internal Text Editor):

Code: Select all

<p style="color:red;font-weight:bold;margin-bottom:4px;">This is a line of text</p>

Here is an example of the same text with those styles declared as a <p> class in the stylesheet (class is called "note"):

Code: Select all

<p class="note">This is a line of text</p>

Due to the rules of cascading stylesheets, the style declaration closest to the text wins. So if your normal <p> tag is defined as having black text and a margin-bottom of 8px, both the inline style in the first example and the class declaration in the second example would override the styles defined in the normal <p> tag. The reason you shouldn't use inline styles is that if you decide later to make your note-type paragraphs have blue text instead of red, you'd have to go through every single topic that has that inline style and change them all to say color:blue, whereas with the class declaration, all you have to do is make one change in the stylesheet to have that change filter through all the topics that call that class.

So you'll need to open the topic in the Internal Text Editor and see if there are any inline styles on the <li> and <p> tags in the topic. If there are, delete them and see if that takes care of the problem. If there aren't any inline styles or if deleting them didn't help, then open the Stylesheet Editor and go through all the complex selectors dealing with lists (ol, ul, li and combinations with those elements), as well as the standalone ol, ul, li tags in the stylesheet, and set all their styles to "not set". That will set them all to their default values (which isn't the same as 0). So you can work from there on rebuilding the styles the way you want -- just remember to test the output frequently so that you don't put more styles in than you need.

[ktbCA57]

The reason you shouldn't use inline styles is that if you decide later to make your note-type paragraphs have blue text instead of red, you'd have to go through every single topic that has that inline style and change them all to say color:blue, whereas with the class declaration, all you have to do is make one change in the stylesheet to have that change filter through all the topics that call that class.

I'm assuming that perhaps "inline" is the same thing as "local"? rather than changing things in the style sheet.. and the latter, not the former is what i'm attempting to do (i.e., make my changes all in the styles sheet)... but NOTHING is working for me.. NOTHING.

i am not sure what i'm going to do... i can't get ANYTHING to work.. and my deadline is looming... i can describe the level of frustration i'm having.. and i know the user forum can't solve that.

Thanks for trying anyway... I simply am LOST.. and have no idea what i'm doing at this point... as i said previously.. i just think i know where i'm at.. and i'm lost again... and AGAIN! it's worse than ever now as i've not had a good foothold in anything i've done for the last 2 days.

Thanks anyway Lisa... i REALLY appreciate your trying to help.. i believe it's hopeless at this point.

[ktbCA57]

btw.. I don't see any extra or extraneous styles within the CSS when i review it... so not sure what the problem is. :-/