Flare 8 Niggles

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Phlawm53
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Re: Flare 8 Niggles

Post by Phlawm53 »

Regarding:
After testing Flare 8 for 2 weeks, I switched back to Flare 7
and…
I also still love Flare, but I just wish they had spent more time in the testing/debugging phase before releasing it to the customers.
and…
Is it just me or does anyone else feel like Flare 8 was released before it was ready?
and other similar expressions…

Sadly, Flare 8's extreme lack of polish and obvious deficiencies of quality compel me to agree.

As for me specifically, I'm a contractor / consultant who for the past three+ years or so has found it very useful to be able to recommend Flare as a cost-effective single-product solution to my customers rather than the more expensive and clumsier FrameMaker-plus-Something Else duad.

Flare's quality issues make it awkward for me to continue making that recommendation, particularly because many of my customers then turn the Flare projects I set up for them over to less technically adept junior writers. Those writers may not be able to devise work-arounds to Flare 8's manifold issues. That in turn has a negative affect on my business.

A key point: I strongly suggest that everyone and anyone who shares this view submit an enhancement / bug request that expresses their concerns in this regard to Madcap. My experience has been that Madcap is generally much more responsive than many other tools vendors I've dealt with. With that in mind, my hope is that by making Madcap more fully aware of the large number of concerns about Flare 8, the company will take action.

Cheers,
Riley
SFO
Last edited by Phlawm53 on Sat May 12, 2012 8:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.
lmhundley
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Re: Flare 8 Niggles

Post by lmhundley »

I forgot to put something in my previous post that I feel is important.

Having been a developer, I know that major releases are difficult and complicated. No matter how much time is devoted to QA and testing, there is always more that could have been done.

To me, MadCap set its own bar high by its successes with previous releases. F8 just knocked the bar down a few notches.

A quick recoverey, especially those small items that are quick and (percived to be) easy, would bolster confidence in the Flare community. (such as the differentiating icons on tabs for the identifying the editor for that content; loss of cursor focus after using a tool; not being able to resize the windows for the explorers and help without pinning them first; and much more).
Lew
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sperkins
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Re: Flare 8 Niggles

Post by sperkins »

(This post is copied from a Flare User Group posting on LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/groupItem?view= ... D_80321994)

Since I upgraded, selecting text by mouse is sometimes impossible...I have to Shift-arrow to select text; when I use auto-hide for one doc, either all files auto-hide or none (until I reboot). Clicking on a file tab sometimes "floats" the file, and I'm getting a LOT more <![CDATA[ ]]> tags (errors) in my XHTML code. When applying divs, the follow-on (unselected) tag is often included, requiring me to move it out. I spend a lot more time in the code, removing errors, applying spans that Flare's XML editor doesn't seem to be able to manage.
Has anyone else noticed this?

I think I'm going to go back to Flare 7. It just isn't worth it for the work I'm doing.
stealth94rt
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Re: Flare 8 Niggles

Post by stealth94rt »

lmhundley wrote:A quick recoverey, especially those small items that are quick and (percived to be) easy, would bolster confidence in the Flare community.
I agree. Unfortunately, if I recall correctly, I think the only "update" that has been released was one that allows you to bring your Flare 8 projects into Flare 7.
SallyD
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Re: Flare 8 Niggles

Post by SallyD »

Another niggle.

My doc has a fairly long table of available accessories. My primary output is PDF. The page breaks in the PDF are different when I build in V8 than they are in V7. In the V8 output, multiple pages have space for another row. On some pages, that results in half of the page empty. I've been going back to build this one in V7.
FlareDiffs.png

Sally
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chuck_aruba
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Re: Flare 8 Niggles

Post by chuck_aruba »

i-tietz wrote:
RamonS wrote:Inge, you really think that adding the ribbon is a selling point?
Unfortunately, yes.
We're living in a world where people voluntarily buy a new cell phone, smart phone or IPad every year, although their old one is still working! People simply wanna be up-to-date!
There's many people out there who buy software for different reasons than we do. For them the look of a GUI is important. If those people look at software and think that it is far behind current technology, then they don't buy it.
For example:
For years we had customers and potential customers asking us when we would offer our software using the .NET technology, which allows having tool windows docked or floating and when we would have the menu items opening tabs instead of windows ... they don't want to work with software that they consider "ugly".
I would say most of that is mythos, if not downright incorrect. I would consider two very important points.

Sure, "many people" are move by nells and whistles and fancy new chrome on their software, but the Flare audience is not "many people." The Flare audience is user assistance development professionals who want software that (a) works and (b) doesn't get in their way. Despite the new capabilities (HTML5, EPUB, etc.) and the apologists/enablers who see MadCap as never doing any wrong, the plain fact of the matter is that the new design and the new code for Flare 8 just plain fails on this basic level. Something as simple as being able to select multiple files in Content Explorer using well-established mouse-keyboard shortcuts is apparently not as important as slapping a garish, wasteful, and inefficient ribbon onto the UI. And there are endless problems with source control, a basic need for any developer. Never mind the sloppy coding that results in stealing more and more CPU cycles if you leave Flare running too long.

To equate .BET with docking or floating tool windows is simply not true. .NET is absolutely not required to make any of those things happen. Any customer that says they want "dot-net" for their tools merely demonstrates their cluelessness, doing nothing more than hopping on the buzzword bandwagon for their purchase checklist. .NET no more makes a product better than agile makes a coding team.

AS a user assistance development professional, I consider a ribbon "ugly." It's inefficiencies and its waste of screen real estate reduce my ability to be more productive. The stylistic flourishes impede my efficiency. And the saddest part is that Flare had a lot of the basics right. But Flare 8 seems to have been driven by marketing, not its audience needs, and it's pretty clear it was rushed to market well before it was ready. We nether want nor need pretty; we just want software that works right and works well.

I hope Anthony and Mike are listening.

P.S. Don't even get me started on the abomination that is the Flare 8 "User Guide." As a documentation development tool, you'd think we'd hold its documentation to a higher standard, but a whole book in itself could be written about what's wrong with the Flare 8 docs. In fact, the Flare 8 docs are probably a good example of what NOT to do when developing user assistance. And where's the EPUB version? Why isn't the Flare team "eating its own dog food?"
kevinmcl
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Re: Flare 8 Niggles

Post by kevinmcl »

I have many hundreds of topics per project, but I've heard from plenty of other writers who have THOUSANDS... so I wonder what they do...

I have Flare 8 installed in a virtual machine running Windows Server 2008 R2. The VM has 40 GB of disk space and at least 4GB of system memory for its exclusive use. About the only other thing I run in there is a browser with a couple of tabs open, and one or two instances of Notepad.

I just ran another "Build Primary" and it took more than ten minutes. Now it's going to take a good three-to-five minutes to "Publish Primary".

While either of those operations is going on, Flare is not usable.
De gustibus non disputandum est
kevinmcl
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Re: Flare 8 Niggles

Post by kevinmcl »

If you update the content of a Snippet, and you SAVE it, are files that have that snippet [link] inserted supposed to update, too?
Assume that when I say "Save", I mean "Save all".
That's the only way I do it.

I just changed a Snippet, S A V E D A L L, then Built and Published, only to find that the topics had the old content... even though the Snippet had updated content.

Is that a feature? ... or a... @#$%^&! ?
De gustibus non disputandum est
RamonS
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Re: Flare 8 Niggles

Post by RamonS »

kevinmcl wrote:I have many hundreds of topics per project, but I've heard from plenty of other writers who have THOUSANDS... so I wonder what they do...

I have Flare 8 installed in a virtual machine running Windows Server 2008 R2. The VM has 40 GB of disk space and at least 4GB of system memory for its exclusive use. About the only other thing I run in there is a browser with a couple of tabs open, and one or two instances of Notepad.

I just ran another "Build Primary" and it took more than ten minutes. Now it's going to take a good three-to-five minutes to "Publish Primary".

While either of those operations is going on, Flare is not usable.
A VM's virtual disk is a large file on another file system. Building and publishing are heavy on disk I/O. Doing that in a VM will take tremendously longer, especially with such little disk space to work with (more file fragmentation). I am sure that there are plenty of good reasons to run Flare in the VM, but expecting speedy disk operations should not be on the list. Just sayin'....
i-tietz
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Re: Flare 8 Niggles

Post by i-tietz »

I agree with David ( :shock: did I really write that?): Do not run Flare in a VM without urgent neccessity.
Considering the current hardware prices I wouldn't use my main software in any VM, but rather suggest to get a separate laptop or sth like that. - It's a matter of efficiency. In a VM EVERYTHING takes longer, let alone copying hundreds or even thousands of files into a network drive ...

We have the different versions of the software we have to describe in VMs and that is draining my nerves. But we need to do that in VMs because we need more than just one version of the software at the same time to compare them. We have about 10 to 15 users (dev, doc, QA, support) of those VMs and so I keep saying that we should install the software versions on a handful of WTS ... if you want to avoid a performance like that in a VM, server hardware costs a "little bit" more than ordinary PC hardware ...
Inge____________________________
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RamonS
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Re: Flare 8 Niggles

Post by RamonS »

We don't disagree on everything....when it comes to a laptop make sure that it has an SSD large enough to hold the OS, apps and project files. The standard 5k4 rpm drives with mediocre on board cache are too slow. There are a few 7k2 2.5" drives that offer better performance, but with prices of SSDs dropping on a daily basis that is the way to go. And settle for a laptop only when you indeed need some degree of mobility. A desktop can provide much more performance at a lower price. Which way to go is entirely dependent on what job(s) you need to do, where to do them, and what the budget is.
If choosing a VM is meant to have a stable system that is easily restored then there are better means. I use the free edition of Macrium Reflect to pull a daily image of the entire disk to an external drive. Restoring a system that is broken beyond repair can be done in less than half an hour. There are also other solutions, Reflect is just one example.
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