Lingo when translating externally?

[Eric Lachance]

Hello all!

We just purchased Flare 6 and I'm very excited about slowly converting our existing documentation into Flare and doing single-sourcing and such. That's still a ways off, but Translation is something that is very important for us, both for legal reasons (our company is in Quebec, meaning our documentation *must* be in French, but most of our customers are in the USA, meaning we write everything in English and then translate).

Our company has gone through multiple methods of writing and generating documentation, starting with FrameMaker some years ago, then almost to Flare (an initial conversion was done by an external company but that failed miserably because of financial reasons we've all suffered from), and at the moment straight out of Drupal using the Books module (yuk).

Now that we are dedicated to Flare though, the question has popped up: Do we use Lingo? Our plan is to continue using an external translation company. We still have our "TMZ" files (Translation Memory indexes) to help with exact and fuzzy matches, but we're unsure as to the compatibility of these files with the Lingo system.

Also, we're not sure whether our translation company has ever heard of Flare and Lingo, so what if they've never used it? Can they still translate with their own system using the lingo-generated files?

The translation project is still a few months away, but we just want to make sure we are prepared for it.

Thanks!

[RamonS]

Lingo in the simplest way loads a Flare project, makes a copy of it (means it creates a brand new project), and then shows the two projects side by side for translation. Translation memory can be used to make translations easier, quicker, better, more consistent, etc. That said, there is no specific Lingo format, it all resides in Flare projects.
That said, Lingo is designed for translating Flare projects, but when the translators never worked with Flare or Lingo the question is if it makes sense to mandate that tool. The translators typically have other tools that they use and that they know well. Having them use Lingo means buying a license for them and paying for training unless your company generates so much business for them that the expenses make sense on the translation company's end to make sure that they keep you as a customer. It comes down to what you hire the translators for: using Lingo or translating your docs?

Interesting to know that you have to translate the documentation although none of your customers will make use of it. Who came up with that law?

[Nita Beck]

Now that we are dedicated to Flare though, the question has popped up: Do we use Lingo? Our plan is to continue using an external translation company. We still have our "TMZ" files (Translation Memory indexes) to help with exact and fuzzy matches, but we're unsure as to the compatibility of these files with the Lingo system.

Also, we're not sure whether our translation company has ever heard of Flare and Lingo, so what if they've never used it? Can they still translate with their own system using the lingo-generated files?

These are excellent question to ask translation vendors. In my area, I know of two translation companies that do know and use Flare. I also know that at least one of them (can't say of the other) does not use Lingo in their workflow. They have their own tools and methods for extracting the material to be translated out of Flare, getting it translated, and then reinserting it into Flare. After that, I would expect that they need to do some additional work directly in Flare to fine tune and troubleshoot any issues that might arise in the translated project.

My advice is that you direct your queries to the translation vendors you are considering. I would also advise that, if a vendor has no experience whatsoever with Flare, you might be better off looking elsewhere. I think many of us would agree that there is A LOT to learn about Flare and it's better to hire a vendor who has experience with it.

[Eric Lachance]

Well, from what my boss tells me, we pay our translators enough per year to justify telling (not asking) them to use Lingo. I won't give numbers, but I was impressed myself. That's solved at least.

A question poped up however that's fairly important. Even withour leverage, we still get charged a small fee when there are 100% perfect matches in the translation files. It's probably not much, but at the volume of translation we do (we have a total of 11 manuals totalizing a few thousand pages, for 2 different software suites, plus one separate program I'm currently starting to document), that can go up into the high 4 numbers in wasted cash every time we do a translation.

So my question is, if we're using Lingo and an existing TMX file, when Lingo detects perfect matches, are we able to "filter out" these matches before sending to a translation company? Or will it always include *all* of the strings and simply display a percentage so we know how much money we will be wasting this time? In other words, the second time we do a translation for a "new" flare project, are we going to be able to send a small "differential" translation patch containing only fuzzy matches and new strings, instead of the whole massive thing?

Interesting to know that you have to translate the documentation although none of your customers will make use of it. Who came up with that law?

Well, some of our customers are french-speaking, and we're an international company so we have to translate in spanish, japanese, german, as well as french, to cater to our worldwide clientele. But in terms of legality, we're in Quebec, which is a so-called "French Nation" and where laws exist that force people to serve customers in french first and dictates that signs displayed in and out of stores need to be bilingual, with the French words showing at least 30% larger than the english words. Any company with more than 50 employees working in Quebec must also have all their software installed in french if a french version is available.

Honestly, I'm french-speaking, and some of these translations... they make me want to puke. Gotta live with it though!

[RamonS]

Ah, OK, I got the impression that your company sells exclusively to English speaking customers. In that case the translations would be somewhat pointless from a business perspective.
Ah, German translations.....if you guys need someone to look those over let me know.

[alt_jennifer]

Hi Eric!

I'm a Flare operator (and Project manager) at a translation agency, and the issue of using Lingo is a tricky one. There are arguments for and against it. We have used it some, but not a great deal since most companies we work with don't require it.

Even if someone doesn't have Lingo though, you can send them a Translation Bundle exported from Lingo -- it will send them HTML files and XLF files that can be translated and sent back to you in the same file formats. Then, you would "Merge the Translation Bundle" back into Lingo, and voilà! All your translations will have populated your Lingo project. You can save it as a Flare project, and continue.

If you are working on updates for an existing Lingo project, you can create a Diff Project that will highlight the updates from the previous version to the new version. Then you can send only those changed files to the translators and leave the rest of the project alone. It's a bit more complicated, but certainly an option.

100% matches with Translation Memories are tricky too -- as a general rule in translation, even if the phrase matches exactly, that doesn't mean that the meaning is identical across the original phrase in the TM and the new phrase for translation. For example, you could see the word "Review". This could be translated as a noun, as a verb infinitive, as a verb command (in multiple different forms). It could have a different translation if you are reviewing a document versus if you are reviewing previous material to make sure you don't forget it. So context is extremely important in translation. Even if the word in English matches exactly, it doesn't mean that the translation should be identical. This is why we and most other agencies will charge a nominal fee for checking over the 100% matches. Or, we will frequently charge nothing for translation, but allow time for the editor to look them over quickly.

Jennifer

[RamonS]

100% matches with Translation Memories are tricky too -- as a general rule in translation, even if the phrase matches exactly, that doesn't mean that the meaning is identical across the original phrase in the TM and the new phrase for translation. For example, you could see the word "Review". This could be translated as a noun, as a verb infinitive, as a verb command (in multiple different forms). It could have a different translation if you are reviewing a document versus if you are reviewing previous material to make sure you don't forget it. So context is extremely important in translation. Even if the word in English matches exactly, it doesn't mean that the translation should be identical. This is why we and most other agencies will charge a nominal fee for checking over the 100% matches. Or, we will frequently charge nothing for translation, but allow time for the editor to look them over quickly.

I once fixed up a translation going from English to German. The software had a network device monitor tool, or short "monitor". The translators turned monitor into "Bildschirm" (means the computer monitor) and "closing monitor" into "Bildschirm abschalten" (turn off the computer monitor). Not only is context important, but also subject matter knowledge. It may be worthwhile to give the translators a day of training on the software so that they know what it is all about and introduce them to the terms of the trade. Some translators don't need that as they have a technical background or do translations for a long time. The ones I dealt with worked at a sister company for years, which makes such a hoopla even more baffling. Turns out that they were fluent in a dozen languages, but couldn't explain in either one what the company does.
In any case, I highly recommend to have someone in the industry (sales rep, support rep, customer, potential customer, SME) working with the software in the targeted country check the translation. Some terms are literally foreign and difficult to translate. Also, be aware of regional technical terms. I bet you are hard pressed to find someone in California who knows what a lally column is, while in the northeast it is quite likely.
Translating is tricky, I've done it and it takes insane effort to get it right.

[Eric Lachance]

I've always been under the impression that "perfect matches" were not words - they were sentences, paragraphs quotes...

That is, if I have this:
The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog

It'll be a perfect match to this:
The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog

But it'll be a "fuzzy match" to this:
The brown fox jumped over the lazy dog

Am I wrong?

[alt_jennifer]

You make some good points, Ramon. Of course, the goal is always to get a translator familiar with the industry. But while you might get a translator who's familiar with the industry in general, it really helps to give them an orientation on the product itself, or a demo version of the software, since each product is quite different. Or, if you can't, provide them with some supporting documentation. For example, if you're translating only the UI of a piece of software, but you have a large help system in English, providing the translators with that help system as a reference can be a huge help. Of course, if the translator is poor, even that may not help them. (And they should never be called on again!) But there are some "rock star" translators who will do hours of research on a product and on the field in general, to make sure everything is accurate. They might be given zero references, and still manage to provide excellent translations because they find the most obsure help references online or at the library. You have to trust the quality and committment of your translators, or trust the agency who is getting them for you!

But by all means, a review of someone who is deeply familiar with both the product and the language (aka, a native speaker of the language) is a definite asset. We highly encourage such reviews in our process, because it really does ensure that the translations meet the client's needs and expectations. And that is the whole goal of a translation project!

Eric, your examples are correct -- and yes, matches are done by "segment", not by word. Segments are usually sentences, but if the word being translated is the header of a topic, or the button on the screen, that segment might only be one word. Those 1-word segments are tricky out of context, and even some longer segments can be tricky. I saw one software translation project where some complete sentences need to be translated as a command, whereas others had to be translated as declarative sentences. But for this product, it was really hard to tell which was which in the string list. Our QC of the localized product revealed some sentences that needed to be switched to the other form! But if those sentences had been used somewhere else, they might have been fine as they were. As is said a lot in our circles, "Context is King!"

[ChoccieMuffin]

How lovely to read other localisers' thoughts - there aren't many of us out there and some of us are in disguise. Although I'm now in tech authoring, that was a change of career forced on me by the current financial situation and my heart will always be in the world of localisation.

Another useful tool for translators is the client's writing style guide, if you have one. Many authors don't bother but it can be well worth the investment of time to actually write down the rules that you follow as you write. While translators won't necessarily follow your English rules, they may well develop their own language-specific rules, and at the very least they will be able to understand why you have phrased things as you have. For example, in my current document Heading 1 and Heading 2 verbs are always gerunds, while Heading 3 verbs are infinitives. While you'd be able to spot this when looking at the final output, with the format that translators work in they might not be able to see it, particularly if they haven't received a copy of your English output.

If you have a project that's fairly chunky, or which is likely to need to be re-worked over the course of quite a long time, you might find it worthwhile to get the translators to adapt your source writing style (keep it in your source language but discussing the target language) and get it approved so that your reviewers have something to check against.

Over the years I have found the review stage the most painful in EVERY project I've worked on, particularly when you have several languages. Very often the reviewers that the client (in this case, you!) has managed to find are people in the company who do something else for their regular day-job, and so some are more dilligent than others - some I've worked with have been truly dreadful! Some reviewers are inconsistent in their review comments and, using my example above, might make a review comment to change a Heading 3 to use a gerund, or want to use inconsistent terminology. If they do this, the translator will be able to point to the style guide and explain why they haven't implemented a review comment. Clarity for everyone and increased consistency woth with the source language and internally, making further amendments and updates much more straightforward to handle.

I second the comments above re having to pay a smal amount for 100% matches, though if you have entire areas of a project that are staying unchanged you should be able to highlight this to the agency and just provide the file for reference. For example, if doing a help file which has been updated from a previous version, you should provide the entire project but make it very clear to the localisers that you only want topics C F and H translated as topics A, B, D, E and G haven't changed since the last time. Good communication and cooperation with your agency can make everyone's lives much easier.

Eric, if your company is paying that sort of money, see if you can get the localisation company to spend a bit of time with you talking you through their processes for dealing with your projects. This should give you a much clearer picture of how they work, what they do, and what you could do when creating source that would save your company money in the process. If they're any use at all, the localisers will be very happy to do that.