Why go with Flare over Robohelp?

[dwag]

I work for a company where writers for one division use Robohelp and writers for the other use Flare. I'm with the other. The Robohelp writers have had their tool longer than we've had Flare. A new manager has decided both divisions need to be on the same tool, and the debate is on.

If single sourcing with Frame is a primary selling point, it should be game over, Flare wins. But as you know, politics underlies all, and I'm the very poorest of politicians.

Since I like Flare (and there you have the pitiful extent of my reasons for wanting to continue using it), is there any reputable article out there that simply (powerfully would be nice, too) makes a case for Flare's superiority over Robo?

Thanks for reading.

[i-tietz]

Do service and support count? Then Flare wins BY FAR!

I cannot recommend Adobe for support (this is a VERY british understatement!!). Need examples? Then write a PM.

[LTinker68]

There are a list of customers who use Flare and several case studies that might be helpful mentioned at http://www.madcapsoftware.com/company/c ... light.aspx.

And there is another page on the MadCap site about RoboHelp, including a link to a product comparison (click the Flare vs RoboHelp button), although I haven't read it to see what it mentions. That page is at http://www.madcapsoftware.com/products/ ... ohelp.aspx.

[RamonS]

Google for Flare vs Robohelp and you will find plenty of reviews. Most of them favor Flare, one of them even calls RoboHelp "craptastic". Also, keep in mind that most of the folks working at MadCap are the ones who created RoboHelp.
I dealt with Adobe's support and MadCap's is lightyears better. I think MadCap's support is among the best in the industry (not just for HAT, but software in general). They even won prizes.
One review points out that you do want to look outside of the HAT area itself and look at the entire suite offered. I think Flare has more integration points than RoboHelp with Craptivate, but I haven't seen the need to bother with RH for years.
I could write why I think Flare is better, but you are already convinced and anything I'd say is likely to be dismissed as biased (not when they'd read all my posts on this forum). Take independent blogs and reviews as source and look closely at what your documentation needs are. If you feel strongly about making a case install both RH and Flare side by side and document the processes and outcomes. If you can show that the ROI with Flare is better and the output is superior you have some great arguments.

[dwag]

Call me the choir. Many thanks for the links. In this political play, I've got the speaking softly part down cold; now all I need is a big link to carry.

[i-tietz]

Google for Flare vs Robohelp and you will find plenty of reviews

I just googled and found quite a few results of people working for companies that sell Flare ...

Take independent blogs and reviews as source and look closely at what your documentation needs are.

Excalamation marks behind this statement! You really have to be careful, because you'll never know how smart the "enemy" is - he might find out that sort of thing ... then you'd be out cold.

[RamonS]

Google for Flare vs Robohelp and you will find plenty of reviews

I just googled and found quite a few results of people working for companies that sell Flare ...

Did you use google.com or google.de? The results are different, although not by much.

dwag -The warning is still valid. Pick sources that are objective beyond doubt, otherwise the comments are useless. Also, make sure that you wisely choose comparisons that are not entirely lopsided. As soon as you show an RH fanatic an overly critical piece they may turn it down as pure bashing.
In case the result is to go with RH keep Flare around for the moment where you can use it to shine - or just get the job done.

[RamonS]

...you can also take a look at RH reviews and pick up on the negative points mentioned - like this review: http://www.writersua.com/articles/robohelp_7/index.html

[dwag]

One thing I'm betting: can't get this kind of prompt, helpful response from RH.

[LTinker68]

One thing I'm betting: can't get this kind of prompt, helpful response from RH.

Well, technically speaking you're not getting this response from MadCap either. RoboHelp's user forums might be just as prompt as this peer-to-peer forum. But I'm sure we're nicer (unless you start RamonS on a Microsoft rant).

[DurtyMat]

One thing I'm betting: can't get this kind of prompt, helpful response from RH.

Well, technically speaking you're not getting this response from MadCap either. RoboHelp's user forums might be just as prompt as this peer-to-peer forum. But I'm sure we're nicer (unless you start RamonS on a Microsoft rant).

I heard Internet Explorer is a wonderful browser. Discuss.





<3

[rob hollinger]

Why not call us and let us compete for it?
Im sure we can set up a Demo and show the decision makers why and how. Im not sure who your sales person is, but I can make sure we do everything we can to help you win.

Contact MadCap Software
MadCap Software, Inc.
7777 Fay Avenue
La Jolla, California 92037

Tollfree: 1-888-MadCap1
Tel: +1 858-320-0387
Fax: +1 858-320-0338

General: MadCapInfo@MadCapSoftware.com
Sales: Sales@MadCapSoftware.com

[ChoccieMuffin]

I haven't had to use tech support for RH (haven't used the product for several years, actually) but I can certainly vouch for the tech support from Madcap. Even with Bronze support I had really full help from Alvaro who called me on my phone and remoted in to my machine so he could drive and let me see what he was doing to fix my problem. Very impressed.

[Andrew Heard]

I'd be interested in the result of your campaign. Not that I'm thinking of defecting - a few years ago I spent the best part of three months doing a Flare vs RH7 assessment. Ended up leaving RH (had been used in the company since the year dot) and adopting Flare. Very happy with the decision.

[dwag]

No need to air a summary of the political forces at play, but we appear to be in the midst of a temporary cease-fire. We just upgraded to TFS 2010 and our division is about to release a new version of our software, along with the latest help, so we had to upgrade to Flare 6 to solve compatibility issues with TFS 2010. For the time being, I've got plenty to do, and I'll be doing it in Flare, despite the tap, tap, tapping I hear at my chamber door.

[olson98]

One thing I can say about RH is their customer service was exceptional. I used it for over ten years. At a new job, I was forced to switch to Flare. The person writing a comparison of the two packages wrote a totally inaccurate comparison. When I was hired, I knew all the negatives on RH were not true. But, it was too late.

The statement I've heard from many is that "Madcap puts out lots of revisions, with lots of new features - forgets to fix the bugs". I've run into this a few times. The first time I contacted Tech Support at Madcap, the rep said "oh yes, that's been broken since Flare 4." What????????????????????????????????????????? Unacceptable.

15 days after Flare was purchased, a new version came out. I told the sales rep that since it was such a short time since the purchase, we should get the upgrade for free. He wasn't amused. However, that's exactly what RH did for us several years ago. We were within 30 days of the purchase when a new revision came out. We were automatically upgraded because there were bug fixes that RH felt we would need.

My personal opinion is that Flare is liked by people who have a coding (you know who you are - programming, development, etc.) background. Unfortunately, I'm a Technical Writer and hated the two programming classes I took in college. I want to spend my time writing excellent online help - not troubleshooting or figuring out why some features that are so easy in RH and Doc-to-Help are NOT easy in Flare. OK - that's enough, off my soapbox. I won't even go into the opinion our developer gave me last week. . .
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[ccardimon]

Unfortunately, I'm a Technical Writer and hated the two programming classes I took in college.

Interesting. I'm a technical writer who taught himself programming along the way. I enjoyed it. Programming is about languages, really. Knowing a bit about computers and programming is handy when I'm talking to the SMEs.

[olson98]

Unfortunately, I'm a Technical Writer and hated the two programming classes I took in college.

Interesting. I'm a technical writer who taught himself programming along the way. I enjoyed it. Programming is about languages, really. Knowing a bit about computers and programming is handy when I'm talking to the SMEs.

I consider myself quite proficient in computers and (some) programming - enough to make me Senior Technical Writer for many years dealing with Development and SMEs!
My point is, however, I choose to spend more time on the writing quality and less time picking apart code! Just my choice, I guess. Have a great day!

[Nita Beck]

One thing I can say about RH is their customer service was exceptional.

That was never my experience, and I was a RH user for more than 10 years. I frequently knew more about RH than the person handling the call. And it was hard to even place a call...

The statement I've heard from many is that "Madcap puts out lots of revisions, with lots of new features - forgets to fix the bugs".

Not my experience. I logged a bug with MadCap this morning that they FIXED about 20 minutes ago. In my experience, Adobe can't hold a candle to a >1-day turnaround of a bug fix. And I'm not saying that I opened a tech support case. I mean I reported a bug, they reached out to me, they fixed it.

My personal opinion is that Flare is liked by people who have a coding (you know who you are - programming, development, etc.) background.

Well, I guess that's your opinion. My experience as a person with a degree in English and Dramatic Arts who started out as a high school English teacher before becoming a tech writer 30 years ago and who is definitely NOT a programming type, I find Flare to be a much more powerful and satisfying product to use than RH. I can do MUCH more with Flare than I could ever do with RH, and my clients are quite happy with the new features I've added to my Help systems and print documentation than I could not have produced with RH -- at least as of the version of RH I abandoned.

[ccardimon]

One thing I can say about RH is their customer service was exceptional.

That was never my experience, and I was a RH user for more than 10 years. I frequently knew more about RH than the person handling the call. And it was hard to even place a call...

Me, too. I thought the service was crappy. A big reason I switched to MadCap.

[ccardimon]

The statement I've heard from many is that "Madcap puts out lots of revisions, with lots of new features - forgets to fix the bugs".

Not my experience. I logged a bug with MadCap this morning that they FIXED about 20 minutes ago. In my experience, Adobe can't hold a candle to a >1-day turnaround of a bug fix. And I'm not saying that I opened a tech support case. I mean I reported a log, they reached out to me, they fixed it.

Not my experience either. I find that MadCap swats bugs. Dead.

[ccardimon]

My personal opinion is that Flare is liked by people who have a coding (you know who you are - programming, development, etc.) background.

Well, I guess that's your opinion. My experience as a person with a degree in English and Dramatic Arts who started out as a high school English teacher before becoming a tech writer 30 years ago and who is definitely NOT a programming type, I find Flare to be a much more powerful and satisfying product to use than RH. I can do MUCH more with Flare than I could ever do with RH, and my clients are quite happy with the new features I've added to my Help systems and print documentation than I could not have produced with RH -- at least as of the version of RH I abandoned.

Hey, I have a degree in English, too. I have an MA. My BS is in biology.

[Nita Beck]

I remember a problem I had with RH7 once. After upgrading to RH X7 from X5, RH could not longer produce Word output. I kept getting an error saying that Word wasn't installed. I submitted a bug report; never heard a thing from Adobe. I posted at the RH forums. One of the well-known RH MVPs tried to help, but he couldn't figure out. MONTHS later, Adobe came out with a fix. MONTHS...

Craig, my MS is in Education. Got it a few months before quitting teaching! (Well, I did go on to teach tech writing at a local college for about 18 years; I knew I could teach. Just couldn't stand teaching high school...)

[ccardimon]

I remember a problem I had with RH7 once. After upgrading to RH X7 from X5, RH could not longer produce Word output. I kept getting an error saying that Word wasn't installed. I submitted a bug report; never heard a thing from Adobe. I posted at the RH forums. One of the well-known RH MVPs tried to help, but he couldn't figure out. MONTHS later, Adobe came out with a fix. MONTHS...

I was good with X5. No complaints. The first upgrade after that was a beast. Very sluggish. Horrible. If they hadn't messed with it...

Craig, my MS is in Education. Got it a few months before quitting teaching! (Well, I did go on to teach tech writing at a local college for about 18 years; I knew I could teach. Just couldn't stand teaching high school...)

Someone I know teaches writing at a local community college. I sometimes have thoughts about doing the same, on a weekend basis. If I may ask, why did you leave?

[RamonS]

One thing I can say about RH is their customer service was exceptional. I used it for over ten years. At a new job, I was forced to switch to Flare. The person writing a comparison of the two packages wrote a totally inaccurate comparison. When I was hired, I knew all the negatives on RH were not true. But, it was too late.

Well, there are plenty of RH converts who will state the opposite. eHelp's support was good, Macromedia was OK, but as soon as Adobe got the fingers on RH support was horrible. MadCap's support is excellent.

The statement I've heard from many is that "Madcap puts out lots of revisions, with lots of new features - forgets to fix the bugs".

Who said that? Look at the release notes and see how many bugs get fixed each release. Also, as with any software company resources are limited. Fixing an issue that is a problem for 500 trumps fixing an issue that annoys 5. Of course, that is disappointing for those 5 people, but it hardly is an issue that leaves the dead in the water, otherwise there would be more complaining.

I've run into this a few times. The first time I contacted Tech Support at Madcap, the rep said "oh yes, that's been broken since Flare 4." What????????????????????????????????????????? Unacceptable.

I've passed that on to support. I agree, that shouldn't happen. As mentioned above, there may be a plausible reason why it is like this. Also, many issues that come up in Flare are based on the rather unpolished .NET platform. Many problems get inherited because Microsoft screwed up somewhere.

15 days after Flare was purchased, a new version came out. I told the sales rep that since it was such a short time since the purchase, we should get the upgrade for free. He wasn't amused. However, that's exactly what RH did for us several years ago. We were within 30 days of the purchase when a new revision came out. We were automatically upgraded because there were bug fixes that RH felt we would need.

I also mentioned that in my note. I've made the exact opposite experience.

My personal opinion is that Flare is liked by people who have a coding (you know who you are - programming, development, etc.) background. Unfortunately, I'm a Technical Writer and hated the two programming classes I took in college. I want to spend my time writing excellent online help - not troubleshooting or figuring out why some features that are so easy in RH and Doc-to-Help are NOT easy in Flare. OK - that's enough, off my soapbox. I won't even go into the opinion our developer gave me last week. . .
E

I disagree with that assessment. After all, we call ourselves "technical writers". Whimping out on the technical part makes a TW nothing more than a formatter that can make stuff look pretty. Some features are not as easy, because they offer way more flexibility than the take it or leave it approaches of others. The learning curve for Flare is steeper than for other HATs, but that is because there is more to learn allowing one to do more in the end. Still, even with some basic training you can put out a decent looking help with Flare by leaving a lot at default.