search woes

[alpindude]

I am having trouble getting the Search functionality for my webhelp outputs to behave.

When I search for a word / phrase in the webhelp document it finds a word / phrase even though it doesn't exist in the TOC. There are other TOC's in the project and some of these TOC's have the word phrase in question. Does the Search function go through all files in the project??? That seems to be the case - this strikes me as very weird behaviour.

Any suggestions as to how to correct?

Thanks!!

[GregStenhouse]

You are right with your assumption, the online targets (webhelp, HTML help etc) will search through every topic in the project, even if not in the TOC. It's not so weird when you think of the TOC as one way to access information (not the only way) and some projects may be set up with a minimal TOC (or no TOC) and rely on the search/index to access info.

If you want to restrict the topics searched, you need to exclude topics from the output using topic conditions. (Right click a topic, select Properties, and then Conditional Text, and in the target exclude that condition). If you don't want to do that for every topic, you can organise your topics into folders and set the condition for the folder, which will exclude all topics in that folder from the output/search.

[alpindude]

Hey thanks Greg for taking the time to reply and very detailed also! Very Much Appreciated!!!

[LTinker68]

If you want a topic to be in the output but don't want it searchable, you disable that feature in the topic's Properties screen. You can change the properties of multiple documents simultaneously using the Show Files icon (I think that's what it's called) in the Content Explorer. For instance, I have some topics that are popups from an image map so they're not in the TOC, but I still want them in the output and I don't want them searchable. So for those dozen or so topics, I set them as not being searchable.

[alpindude]

Wow, thanks Lisa!! This is golden information for me today. Cheers.

[livetoski]

I am seeing strange things. If I include the folder, but some of the topics are conditioned as comment, and I exclude comment, I still get the comment conditioned folders. I expect that the folder condition is overriding the topic condition, but that isn't very logical, as the topic should over ride the folder, no?

[LTinker68]

It depends on how you set up the conditions in the target. A condition that's explicitly included overrides a condition that's excluded. So if the topic has a condition that's included in the target -- even if the topic is in a folder that's been excluded -- then the topic will be included. If no condition is applied to a target, or if it has a condition that hasn't been included or excluded in the target, then the topic will automatically be included in the output if it's online output, and will be included in print output if it's in the TOC.

So unless you have some fairly complex conditional situations, you might want to not mark anything as explicitly being included and only mark conditions that should be excluded for every target.

[NorthEast]

So if the topic has a condition that's included in the target -- even if the topic is in a folder that's been excluded -- then the topic will be included.

No, that's wrong - the topic will not be included if the parent folder is excluded.
If something is excluded, then everything inside it is excluded, regardless of any condition set.

The include setting only overrides an exclude when they're both on the exactly the same element - e.g. both conditions are set on a topic (html tag), paragraph tag, span tag, etc.

[LTinker68]

Thanks for the correction, Dave. I thought an explicit include at the topic level overrode all conditions, regardless of where the topic was located.

[livetoski]

So my expectations were that an excluded topic would be excluded from the output if it was within an included folder. So all the other topics would be included, but the one with the excluded condition would not be included. Folder included, topic condition excluded therefore topic excluded. I don't see the logic of including it. But that is what is happening.

[LTinker68]

You mean you don't see the logic of being able to explicitly include something? Or do you mean you explicitly included it but it's not showing up in the output?

[livetoski]

The folder is conditioned "Install", which is included in the target. The topic within the folder is conditioned "Comment", which is excluded in the target. The topic shows up in a search, unless I change the properties. This doesn't make sense to my way of thinking. This means that conditioning to include at the folder level is meaningless, I need to condition every topic unless I intend an exclude of the entire folder.

If I wish to keep a commented topic in a folder that is included, have to change the properties of the topic twice. I guess the visual conditioning of the topic is just for me. I carry a bunch of topics along that are incomplete but plan to finish and include them in future published versions, just not at the moment. What is the point of being able to exclude at topic, if the folder overrides that? I just have to manage my project differently. That's what I am resigned to doing. Just so long as I know how it is working.

[LTinker68]

In my case, I never explicitly exclude at the folder level unless everything in the folder doesn't need to go to the output. For instance, I have a "field operator's guide" and an "administrator's guide". There are a couple of folders containing topics just for the admin guide, so I condition those folders as adminOnly, and in the field ops target I have adminOnly set to exclude. For online output, those topics marked adminOnly will not show up in the field ops guide and therefore aren't searchable since they're not in the output to begin with.

I also don't tend to explicitly include anything because my conditioning needs are fairly simple. So for the most part, I only condition content that will be excluded, and I only exclude at the folder level if everything in the folder will be excluded. If one topic in that folder won't be excluded, then I either move that topic to another folder, or I leave the folder unconditioned and apply conditions at the topic level instead.

Also, make sure you delete the output folder before building. It could be you're seeing cached search data instead of the updated search data that's regenerated every time you build the output.

[livetoski]

I feel like we are talking at cross purposes, I get exclude overriding include. What I don't get is an included folder overriding excluding a topic. I'd rather not have to condition hundreds of topics, but in fact I have to. I would like to be able to include at the folder level, and at the topic level, chose to not include. We've been careful about not making this kind of assumption, and it's paid off in large part. I'd just like Flare to work otherwise.

Since a simple exclusion doesn't work, I have to change the property of a topic twice, properties, I have to do two things, show an exclusion by conditioned colour, and change the property to make the topic unsearchable.

A topic explicitly marked exclude at the topic level shouldn't be included, or what's the point? I can see a topic being excluded if the folder is excluded. Exclude is a dead end. I expected a cascading logic, folder included, but then an excluded condition tripped the exclusion wire. If then, if then, if then else.

[LTinker68]

So is the folder explicitly marked include, or does it not have any conditioning applied at the folder level? If the whole folder is marked explicitly include, then all topics in that folder will be included. It's the opposite situation of what Dave corrected me on before. So if you have a mix of topics inside a folder, then remove all conditioning from the folder.

[NorthEast]

I think there's some misunderstanding here, which is understandable as Flare's interface is a bit misleading.

Firstly, it's best not to think of the include setting as being the opposite of exclude; it isn't - confusing, I know.

A lot of people think they need to tick include to include content marked with that condition, but you don't.
By default, every file in your project is included in the help; so if you don't tick both include or exclude, your content is included.

The exclude option does what it says - it will exclude content marked with that condition (and following that, anything inside it).

However, think of the include option as being an override when you have two conditions set on exactly the same element - that part is very important, it only applies when you have two conditions on the same thing (html tag, topic, folder, TOC item). Also, the include doesn't apply to content inside it, it's just for the element the condition is set on.

For example, say a topic is marked with two conditions A and B. If A is marked as exclude, then that topic is excluded. But if you then tick include for condition B, then that will override the exclude set for condition A.

If the whole folder is marked explicitly include, then all topics in that folder will be included. It's the opposite situation of what Dave corrected me on before. So if you have a mix of topics inside a folder, then remove all conditioning from the folder.

No, again that's not right, it will not include excluded topics inside the folder. The only circumstance that you need to set include on the folder is if there were two conditions set on the folder, and the other condition was set to exclude and you wanted to override that for this target.

I feel like we are talking at cross purposes, I get exclude overriding include. What I don't get is an included folder overriding excluding a topic. I'd rather not have to condition hundreds of topics, but in fact I have to. I would like to be able to include at the folder level, and at the topic level, chose to not include. We've been careful about not making this kind of assumption, and it's paid off in large part. I'd just like Flare to work otherwise.

Setting include for the condition on the folder does not override any excluded conditions for topics inside it; you would only ever need to tick include if you have two conditions set on the folder, and the other condition was set to exclude, and you wanted to override that.

Anyway, it sounds like you don't need to tick include; also, you only need a condition on the folder if you're excluding that folder in a particular output. (You've only mentioned excluding topics, not the folder.)

I'd suggest making a test project and experimenting with conditions - it's more clear when you try it out than to read about it.

[livetoski]

Dave Lee wrote:
Setting include for the condition on the folder does not override any excluded conditions for topics inside it; you would only ever need to tick include if you have two conditions set on the folder, and the other condition was set to exclude, and you wanted to override that.

This is exactly what happened: The folder is conditioned only for "webhelp", a few topics within the folder are conditioned "comment". The target included "webhelp", and I specifically disincluded (as for all targets) "comment".

The topics conditioned "comment" turned up in my published webhelp.