Snippet within a Snippet and other single sourcing questions

[nickatwork]

Hi all,
I'm currently evaluating tech. authoring tools and MadCap is in the short list for our company. I have used a few other tools previously, however never Flare. So theres a couple questions that I have about the 'true single sourcing' that Flare has.

1. Can you embed a snippet within a snippet?

2. Are there any issues associated with list styles being applied to multiple snippets? i.e I have a procedure that uses 6 steps. Steps 1-2 are based on Snippet 1 and step 3-4 and based on snippet 2 and steps 5-6 are not snippets at all. Do I need to apply the list style in the snippet, or can I apply it in topic where it is embedded, and how will the 'continue numbering' be affected? The reason I ask is I previously used RoboHelp 8, and this was a pretty signficant weak point. I have a lot of procedures that use perhaps the same 1 or 2 steps, and some mid way steps, its always nice to be able to single source these in a hassle free manner.

3. Variables, maybe not the right palce to ask but I thought I'd give it a whirl, are variables able to be set a topic, and project level? i.e. I use the variable <menuname> in some topics I want it to say File, but if its not set in a topic, I want it to say Edit. Is this possible? I have used another tool in the past that allowed variables to be assigned at any level, and it was so useful, when I found RH couldnt do it I had to change a lot of things.

4. Can variables within a snippet be assigned at topic level without affecting what that variable is in another topic where the snippet is assigned? i.e If I have 1 snippet with 1 variables used in it, and I use that snippet in 3 places, can I set that variables each time in each of those locations, or will setting the variable once, force it across all? in addition, can I set the variable once in the snippet and have it used across all instances where it is used?

Thanks for taking the time to read, and I hope some of you out there can help me with my questions.

[LTinker68]

1. Can you embed a snippet within a snippet?

Yep, just did a simple test and it works.

2. Are there any issues associated with list styles being applied to multiple snippets? ... Do I need to apply the list style in the snippet, or can I apply it in topic where it is embedded, and how will the 'continue numbering' be affected?

It depends on how many list items are in the snippet. If it's just one item then don't insert a list in the snippet -- just insert the snippet into a list item in the topic. If the snippet contains multiple items, then yes, create a list inside the snippet. If there is a chance the snippet could be inserted after the first line item in the topic, then enable the "continue from previous" option to the first line item in the snippet. If after inserting the snippet you want additional items after it, then you'll have to again continue the list from the previous. Note that in the authoring environment your list numbers will appear incorrect -- the snippet will appear as 1 regardless of where it falls in the topic and the list following it will continue from the line items before the snippet. It's only when the output is generated that the list numbering will resolve correctly.

3. Variables, maybe not the right palce to ask but I thought I'd give it a whirl, are variables able to be set a topic, and project level?

Project level, but you have the option to change them at the target level. For instance, I have a variable called docTitle that has the text "Administrator's Guide". That is the text I'll see in the topics as I write and in my AdminGuide target, the variable is left as is, so it'll build out as "Administrator's Guide". For my UserGuide target, however, the variable's value is changed in the target to say "User's Guide". I'll still see "Administrator's Guide" in the authoring environment, but when I build the UserGuide target, all instances of "Administrator's Guide" will be replaced with "User's Guide".

4. Can variables within a snippet be assigned at topic level without affecting what that variable is in another topic where the snippet is assigned? i.e If I have 1 snippet with 1 variables used in it, and I use that snippet in 3 places, can I set that variables each time in each of those locations, or will setting the variable once, force it across all? in addition, can I set the variable once in the snippet and have it used across all instances where it is used?

No, as explained above the variables are project level, so if you want three different values in the same output then you'd need to create three different variables. There are ways around that, however, such as snippet conditions, so instead of using variables, you'd go with a similar example as your first question.

You can download Flare and use it to build some test projects. The output will be scrambled so you can't use it, but you'll have all the functionality to play with.

[nickatwork]

Great, thanks very much for the reposnse. Most helpful.
Think I will get a trial running at home this weekend and investigate some of these things a bit further, too much red tape to get things installed at work.

Big shame about setting variables at project level only. Doing it by target is fair enough, just using a different variable set in a way, similiar to how RoboHelp did from the sounds of things.

Do you know of any known issues with Flare outputting list styles to Word? The reason I ask is that RoboHelp was absolutely rubbish at doing this, especially when snippets became involved. But I'm not sure if it was more of a Word thing, or a styles mapping issue.

Thanks for the help.
Nick

[ChoccieMuffin]

Lists - reckon it's a Word thing. I have problems with lists renumbering themselves in Word even if I don't go anywhere near Flare with them!

The problem is that Word just doesn't handle lists the same way as Flare does, and every list in the document that uses the same style is actually the same list. Big pain and Microsoft should get their thinking caps on and sort it. (But probably won't.)

[nickatwork]

Yeah I know word is an absolute pig with lists, but it can be managed with creating different kinds - it isnt pretty, but it does work, sort of.

My concern is that Flare may have some of the lovely 'features' that RoboHelp had with using lists and snippets together and forgetting that list numbering, or the alignments settings etc.

think i will have to test this one to the limit in the next few days.

[wclass]

...
Do you know of any known issues with Flare outputting list styles to Word?

Lists from Flare into Word look OK, mostly, but they are not built very well. For example, if you have a list within a list, it is not created properly as a sub-list, the inner list items just have a bigger margin. If you want to do any further editing in Word the list numbers will break - you can't just use the indent icon to get the next level.

I don't have a problem with wrong numbering - new lists restart OK.

Flare should be able to fix the sub-lists though, because I think it is a Flare issue and not a Word one (this time!). Flare is doing some sort of mapping of styles when it creates the output ( it creates lists called "li_1" or "li_2"), that are difficult to manipulate in Word. However, if you open up a Flare topic directly in Word, then Word is able to open it and map the headings and lists corectly (to try this you have to have the "Confirm conversions at open" flag checked).

Why does Flare try and reinvent the conversion when it could just piggy back off the routines available in Word?
(I believe I've made a request or two for better mapping at export (and import)).

[mamarachel]

1. Can you embed a snippet within a snippet?

Yep, just did a simple test and it works.

I tried it, too, but I was hoping that I would be able to convert the embedded snippet to text without converting the higher-level snippet to text. Is it possible to convert an embedded snippet to text? If so, how?

[Nita Beck]

...but I was hoping that I would be able to convert the embedded snippet to text without converting the higher-level snippet to text. Is it possible to convert an embedded snippet to text? If so, how?

Yes, it's possible. Open the higher-level snippet. Right-click the embedded snippet and click Convert to Text.

[mamarachel]

...but I was hoping that I would be able to convert the embedded snippet to text without converting the higher-level snippet to text. Is it possible to convert an embedded snippet to text? If so, how?

Yes, it's possible. Open the higher-level snippet. Right-click the embedded snippet and click Convert to Text.

Thanks for that encouraging news, but I still can't seem to make it work. Here's what I did:

I created a snippet, ImageTBD.flsnp. With ImageTBD.flsnp open, I then inserted another snippet, DeliveryTeamWorkgroupName.flsnp, and saved ImageTBD.flsnp.

In a topic, I inserted ImageTBD.flsnp (with the embedded snippet) and saved the topic file.

In the topic file, I then wanted to convert the DeliveryTeamWorkgroupName snippet portion of the ImageTBD snippet to text.

Is this possible?

Thanks.

[Nita Beck]

No, not without converting the higher-level snippet to text first. You cannot convert the embedded snippet to text directly from within the topic because the embedded snippet is not directly accessible from within the topic. It's only accessible from within the higher-level snippet.