Trouble numbering in printed output (Word 2007)

[Tom]

Hi,

I have an instructional helpfile (Flair 6.1) where lots of topics contain numbered steps and list-styles (decimal numbering, circles and disks).
In xml I use the ordered list (ol) for the decimal numbering, the list (li) at paragraph level and extended lists (ul).

For the printed output I use the more or less standard classes and styles in the stylesheet (except for the font (Arial) and some margins/padding).
The export itself is quite reasonable in Word (2007, Dutch edition).
But still, and certainly during the lifetime of the document, I must do some editing, also in the numbered lists. And I want to change the 'li-style' in the usual way in Word and apply the changes automatically in the hole document. But then, the changes in the margins and indent are not accepted bij Word. And when I change the layout by hand on the screen, it's disaster time. The moment I change the layout of the list, all the numbered lists that correctly started with number one, now use the continued numbering from the last list. Even when I use a standard style from Word, it refuses to start renumbering when I try. So at page 100, step 1 in the instruction start with number 2548 (for example).
In all other documents in Word the list-styles in Word work as they are supposed to do (I know numbering in Word is downright the most horrible and unworkable **** , but nevertheless…).
But I am afraid that in the exported document form Flair 6.1 the basic numbering in Word is overruled by Flair. And for me that would be the end of 'export to print'.

Anyone any idea how to proceed? PDF is no option because the content of the document must be edited during the lifetime.

Thanks,
Tom

[LTinker68]

I'm confused. Are you trying to modify the Word document (add a list or list item) after outputting it from Flare? Or are you saying you're making the list change in Flare and it doesn't appear correctly once it's been outputted to Word?

[Tom]

Hi Lisa,
It's the First. We are making software and only for a major release we are producing PDF-documents. Let's say about 4000 pages A4 (for the four different versions of our application).
But as always in software, there are minor release (mainly bug-fixing) with very little functional changes ment for users. But there are some. Those changes are copied in the Word versions of the documents.
So they must be edited. Up till now it has been too much of a hurdle and time-consuming (lay-out) to make documents for each minor release.
What I tried is applying the 'li-style' to a new list. But up till now with poor results. And what I am trying, is making the export from Flair to Word as smooth as possible.
Tom

[lacastle]

It shouldn't be too time-consuming to make the edits in Flare and output another Word doc.
It will actually take more time to edit the Word doc because you'll eventually have to put those changes back into Flare going forward, right?

[Tom]

Lisa,
I understand your reply. And I deliberately noted 'as smooth as possible'. Taking into account the prescriptions for our house-style, the title page, the footer containing a macro referring to documentname on the frontpage and the page numbering.
I am working for 12 years now on helpfiles, starting with Winhelp and RoboHelp (robocop…).
So up till now, the export to Word has been a obstacle. And with Word 2010 coming up…..??? That why some manual copy and paste is so much faster than anything else. And therefore manual editing in Word must be possible in the (near?) future.Tom

[LTinker68]

So at page 100, step 1 in the instruction start with number 2548 (for example).

As you mentioned, Word has problems with numbering that began long before Flare was created. Even if you'd created the document entirely in Word you could still have the problems you're seeing. I have that problem all the time with documents created entirely in Word. And yes, it's damn annoying, but it's a Word issue, not a Flare one.

And therefore manual editing in Word must be possible in the (near?) future.

MadCap's expectation isn't that you use its software to output to Word and then edit in Word. The design, as Laura mentioned, is to control the content in Flare then output it to the output type(s) you want. The fact that you're having problems editing in Word afterward isn't Flare's problem.

[wclass]

Flare and Word have different "standard" numbering styles, and the problem as I see it is that Flare does not export to Word using Word standards, but makes up its own styles, applying inline formatting in some places. This causes a particular problem with lists, for example, I have some bulleted and some numbered lists in one output, and both are generated with the style "li_1" but one has bullets applied and the other numbers. If I try to change this style across the whole Word document, it would mess up all the lists.

The workaround I see is to get your Flare styles set up, and use a print/Word medium to define specific printable styles so that you don't have to modify the styles at all in Word.

In the stylesheet, we set up our lists (ul, ol, li etc) for the default medium for use online, and we have created a special medium for Word output "msword" that specifies the styles for all lists, including font, size, indentation, and number format. We also create complex selectors for lists within lists, and paragraphs within lists, so that these are formatted correctly and we don't need to change them on output.

You might need to learn about mediums and complex selectors to get the styles to work right.

If you must make a change to one part of a Word document after export, make a copy of the style first, change the copy only and apply it to the part that needs updating.

I'd also reconsider Laura's suggestion - make your content changes in Flare and regenerate - you might need a separate target so that you can generate just the minor release information.

For what it's worth, I have put in a bug request to change Flare so that I can map Flare styles to Word ones on export rather than have Flare guess as it does at the moment. We also have real-world scenarios that require us to edit information in Word once it is out of Flare - I think the ability to map styles would solve a lot of the output problems that we currently get.
Bug requests here: https://www.madcapsoftware.com/bugs/submit.aspx