Thoughts on i.e. and e.g.

[nickatwork]

Hi all,
For the longest time I have always used i.e. and e.g. without (brackets) unless they have come mid-sentence. I have never used a comma after and never capatilized them and if it ends up that there is a sentence following that e.g. then I will generally use 'for example,' instead. Now I notice that I will use a comma after 'for example,' whereas e.g. I will not, even though they mean the same thing. I think the reason for this is that it is just over use of punctuation.

I reviewd a bit of work for someone and they have basically disagreed with all of them.

From what I have found online, use of a comma is an American thing, whereas UK tend to no use a comma. I'm not really fussed, I'm from New Zealand and we switch between US and UK for things like this all the time.

What are your thoughts on this?

[NorthEast]

I'm in the UK, and I've never used a comma after e.g. or i.e.
I'm guessing that using a comma is more common in the US than the UK, as I'm not used to seeing one.

I tend to use a comma or semi-colon before e.g. or i.e. if they're used mid-sentence, and are not inside brackets.
I like fruit; e.g. apples, oranges, pears.

I've never capitalised e.g. (or i.e.); if I was using it at the start of a sentence, I would write 'For example,'.

If I write 'for example' in a sentence, then I normally use a comma afterwards (like yourself).

[RamonS]

I'd tend to not use a comma for i.e. or e.g. I think commata are used ineffectively and typically in the wrong spots in the English language, but that is a pointless debate. My disliking won't change the rules.

[nickatwork]

I suppose, as always, consistency has to own it. There are usually 10 different ways to do things, but we need to choose one and stick to it.

Thanks guys.

[ChoccieMuffin]

I try to avoid using either i.e. or e.g., because sadly there are a good few people who just don't know what they mean and get them wrong, using i.e. when they mean e.g. or the other way round. (See, avoided another Latin phrase!)

I think if it's something you do, it should be documented in your writing style guide, then if someone who doesn't agree with your style will have to disagree wtih the style guide because at least you have been consistent.

[Andrew]

I try to avoid using either i.e. or e.g., because sadly there are a good few people who just don't know what they mean and get them wrong, using i.e. when they mean e.g. or the other way round. (See, avoided another Latin phrase!)

We used them frequently in our technical writing for years, but for the past few years I've started to rethink them, for exactly the reason you list: many people don't really understand them. Among my users, in particular, I suspect they come off looking stuffy and pretentious (many of our users' highest education level is high school, and those who have college education tend towards hostility to what they perceive as intellectual elitism). I see very few situations where e.g. cannot be replaced by for example (or an equivalent phrase) without any change in meaning. i.e. is a bit harder, but "in other words" seems to work reasonably well in many (not all) cases.

That said, we always write i.e. and e.g. as parentheticals, and we include a comma, but that may be because our "parent" style guide is the Chicago Manual of Style, which recommends it.

(On occasion, I have been told I overuse parentheses when better sentence construction would obviate their use. There may be something to this.)

[Nita Beck]

Can't say what the common conventions are for e.g. and i.e. in the UK or New Zealand. I'm in the US, and my reference of choice for 30 years has been the Handbook of Technical Writing, edited by Alred, Brusaw, and Oliu. When I taught technical writing, this book was my students' primary resource.

In the latest edition of the handbook, the editors write (bold added for emphasis):

The abbreviation e.g. stands for the Latin exempli gratia, meaning "for example; i.e. stands for the Latin id est, meaning "that is." Because the English expressions (for example and that is) are clear to all readers, avoid the Latin e.g. and i.e. abbreviations except to save space in notes and visuals. If you must use i.e. or e.g., do not italicize either and punctuate them as follows.

--If i.e. or e.g. connects two independent clauses, a semicolon should precede it and a comma should follow it.

"The conference reflected international viewpoints; i.e., Germans, Italians, Japanese, Chinese, and Americans gave presentations."

--If i.e. or e.g. connects a noun and an appositive, a comma should precede it and follow it.

"The conference included speakers from five countries, i.e., Germany, Italy, Japan, China, and the United States."

I think the best advice, as was already suggested, is to avoid using these abbreviations altogether, except to save space where space is an issue.

And, as already suggested, establish what your local style rules are regarding these abbreviations and then apply those rules consistently.

[LTinker68]

I think part of this comes down to, again, your audience. There are times when you want to use e.g. and i.e. because they do raise the level of the content of the document, so to speak. The audience for a lot of our documentation is engineers who have a higher level of education and are probably familiar with those terms, if not the actual Latin phrases they represent. Plus, there are times when certain documents (especially proposals) have a page count and sometimes you just need to save space wherever you can.

On the other hand, for user's guides and such, I tend not to use them more than I have to since the end users may not be engineers and/or familiar with the phrase, although I might throw them in if the rest of the paragraph has a lot of "for examples" and "in other words" in it.

[GregStenhouse]

From "Style Book: A guide For New Zealand Writers and Editors" (Wallace and Hughes, 1995), p. 17

The use of a comma after such abbreviations as e.g. and i.e. is rapidly disappearing in published writing. However, it is helpful to punctuate before, and where applicable after, the material introduced by these expressions in order to acknowledge the break in continuity that they bring about.

If the comma was rapidly disappearing in 1995 I'd say it has probably ridden off into the sunset on a horse by now

Cheers
Greg

[SteveS]

...and our organisational style guide stipulates no punctuation! For example, ie and eg should be used.

Given we write training material used by generation Y, I guess the lack of punctuation is not a problem.

[Robotman]

Given we write training material used by generation Y, I guess the lack of punctuation is not a problem.

steve u r crazee. y stop their... err...

[nickatwork]

...and our organisational style guide stipulates no punctuation! For example, ie and eg should be used.

Given we write training material used by generation Y, I guess the lack of punctuation is not a problem.

As shocking as it is, the Guardian (UK newspaper) manual of style has the same rule. A Newspaper! wnt b lng til we jst writ evrythg n shrt txt frm cos its wat ppl r used 2.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/styleguide/e