Flare 9 buggy as all get out. You too?

[mattf]

I'm using the Flare 9 trial software on Windows 7, trying to create a demo of a document that we can single source using conditional tags. I'm finding this software to be much buggier than Flare used to be. I used to use Flare from its humble beta all the way to Flare 8, before I changed jobs. Now I'm trying to do simple things that should be no problem, like select text that extends across a page break, or create a div with a multipage table in it. Bizarre things happen: the text won't select across a page (and then no styles are available no matter where I put the cursor on that page); the table becomes repeated when I create a div (really duplicated, too, not just a momentary rendering thing), and then when I try to delete that extra table from the div, the tables merge and the first table loses formatting.

I don't even know where to start entering bug reports. I'm about to give up on Flare.

Has anyone experienced a greater number of frustrations with 9?

[Nita Beck]

Although I encounter what I consider minor annoyances with the XML Editor, I have not had a "buggy as all get-out" experience with Flare 9. (I don't mean to sound like a "fan girl," but you asked the question...) Perhaps I don't hit so many because I often find it easier to use the text editor. For example, if I want to wrap a very long table and some other stuff in a <div>, I tend to enter the opening and closing tags manually in the code. Otherwise, I might add an essentially empty div in the XML Editor, and then I cut-and-paste said table into the div.

[techwriter31]

I have also experienced similar problems when attempting to edit text that is right next to the page break when viewing the topic in the Print layout. The first few times I thought I made some serious mistakes but then realized it was mostly a rendering issue. I usually switch to Web layout when modifying text along page breaks and it resolves the problems. I have also seen the repeating behavior you mentioned, but it's typically when I cut several items from a list and then attempt to paste it somewhere. When pasted, the first list item's text is repeated for every list item.

However, I agree with Nita, and find that the overall benefits that we've seen due to Flare (single-sourcing, decreased translation costs and my sanity ) outweigh the bugs that I encounter.

[whunter]

I'm still on Flare 8, and I see similar issues with the Print Layout view (problems selecting text, repeating text, disappearing text). Switching to Web Layout view resolves the issues as techwriter31 noted. I just keep it in Web Layout view except for the rare times when I specifically want to see how something will fall on the page.

[Nita Beck]

Interesting replies. In thinking how I use Flare, I tend to have my primary target set to a Help target rather than a print target, so I'm usually viewing the XML Editor in web layout. But for the one project in which I have only a print target, I still don't recall having the difficulties being reported.

Maybe a good workaround, as has been suggested, is to work in web layout view.

[mattf]

Thanks for these replies, all. It occurred to me after my first post that using the XML editor for long tables inside divs might be less frustrating than trying to select all that text when Flare was obviously disinclined to select it, and after Nita's first response I tried that, and it is a good workaround. It's a slight bummer to have to switch back and forth, because while comfortable in the XML editor I prefer to use the WYSIWYG editor. I could also use Web view instead of print view, sure. But it used to be that you could do normal operations like that without problems. As a returning Flare user, I find it disappointing. Agreed, though, the benefits of Flare are still very real and realizable.

Thanks,
Matt

[ChoccieMuffin]

If you want to enter bugs, try the link in my footer. (Don't have anything else of any use to add.)

[navoff]

The problem with selecting text that spans page breaks isn't new. I've had that issue before in earlier versions. In those cases, I just had to switch to the web layout in order to get it to work correctly.

What we've been experiencing is issues with Flare interfacing with Sourcesafe. When I add files (htm, TOC, target, images) Flare has a hard time staying in sync with Sourcesafe so when I go to open a project up, I'm constantly having to resolve "conflicts" between what it thinks is in Sourcesafe and the local copy, even though no changes were made to either file. In fact, it happens when I check a new file in, exit Flare and immediately reopen it. No one else touched the file but now Flare thinks the two copies are different somehow. And when I go to add/check in a new file into Souresafe, Flare doesn't refresh to show that the file is indeed added and checked in. The icon next to the file doesn't show the locked padlock, it continues to show the green plus symbol. I have to exit and restart Flare to get that to change. Very annoying.

Plus, I've been having issues with Flare showing both the ribbon and the toolstrip menu bars at the same time, especially if I've been accessing Flare remotely (doing a remote desktop to my work PC which is running Flare) but it's also happened when I opened the file up while at work and had the program opened for several hours. I'll go off to lunch and when I come back, two sets of menu bars.

[Msquared]

I use Perforce, not Sourcesafe, and I've worked out a workflow that involves doing some things in Flare, and some directly in Perforce. This means that Perforce and Flare do get out of sync.

I just use Source Control > Refresh in Flare an awful lot. That puts Flare back to the state that Perforce is really in. You can do it at folder level, and it's quick. Perhaps that will work for you?

[ArmandFrvr]

I work in web layout most of the time and have not seen any of the text issues you mention. I have noticed that inserting rows into really large tables in the WYSIWYG editor takes... next to forever. I try to work in the XML editor when I need to add or paste large amounts of data into a table.

The most frustrating bugs I've noticed are the random crashes that happen either completely randomly, or slightly more often when I use the Ctrl key as part of a keyboard shortcut. I do a lot of copy/paste/cut using keyboard shortcuts, and it seems that Ctrl-V has a higher likelihood than most other commands of causing Flare to just shut down (no error message or anything). It's done this since Flare 8, which was the first version I have experience with. 9.2 seems slightly better than 9.0 or 9.1, but it still happens a lot. The Alt text field for images is particularly bad. I'll start typing in this field, and Flare automagically closes. It was so bad in 9.1 that I wrote all my alt text in notepad and pasted it into Flare using the right-click menu (Ctrl-V would crash it about 80% of the time).

Has anyone else seen these random crashes, or am I just special?

[sdcinvan]

like select text that extends across a page break, or create a div with a multipage table in it. Bizarre things happen: the text won't select across a page (and then no styles are available no matter where I put the cursor on that page); the table becomes repeated when I create a div (really duplicated, too, not just a momentary rendering thing), and then when I try to delete that extra table from the div, the tables merge and the first table loses formatting.

I don't even know where to start entering bug reports. I'm about to give up on Flare.

Has anyone experienced a greater number of frustrations with 9?

I'm relatively new to Flare (two months in now) and I have experienced a number of bugs (just search my name) but I have not encountered any of the issues you reported... actually, correction... I have encountered some oddities with tables but they were always cosmetic. What I mean is that you may find that the odd appearance will disappear if you switch to the Text Editor and then back to the XML editor. Additionally, I found it more satisfying to... when possible, avoid the XML editor in favor of NotePad ++.

After a fairly difficult learning curve and a lot of help from this forum (and some help from CS), I have learned to love Flare v9.12... despite the bugs.

[sdcinvan]

I work in web layout most of the time and have not seen any of the text issues you mention. I have noticed that inserting rows into really large tables in the WYSIWYG editor takes... next to forever. I try to work in the XML editor when I need to add or paste large amounts of data into a table.

The most frustrating bugs I've noticed are the random crashes that happen either completely randomly, or slightly more often when I use the Ctrl key as part of a keyboard shortcut. I do a lot of copy/paste/cut using keyboard shortcuts, and it seems that Ctrl-V has a higher likelihood than most other commands of causing Flare to just shut down (no error message or anything). It's done this since Flare 8, which was the first version I have experience with. 9.2 seems slightly better than 9.0 or 9.1, but it still happens a lot. The Alt text field for images is particularly bad. I'll start typing in this field, and Flare automagically closes. It was so bad in 9.1 that I wrote all my alt text in notepad and pasted it into Flare using the right-click menu (Ctrl-V would crash it about 80% of the time).

Has anyone else seen these random crashes, or am I just special?

Early on, I experienced some crashing and it appeared to be the result of a lot of switching from the XML editor to the Text editor. I have since applied a patch for bug 79915 (B3.ControlsKit.dll - part of issue 52081) *and* changed my behavior by using NotePad ++ instead of Flare's built-in text editor. I haven't experienced another crash since. IMHO, it was more likely NotePad++ making my experience more positive than that patch I applied.

You mentioned Flare v9.2? Did you actually mean Flare v9.12?

[Jeong]

I'm a new flare user, having started my eval in November 2019 and am now in Jan 2020, using Flare 2019 r2, 64bit on Windows 10, and OH MY GOD this is buggy. I submitted I think 4 bug reports during the trial period... but now that my projects are getting bigger and there are way more targets to deal with, I'm starting to lose my mind over these random and inconsistent behaviours. In case anyone else is reading this... the experience in 2020 is still the same: buggy as hell.

I came here searching for posts about 64bit Vs 32bit in terms of bugs... I'm contemplating trying the 32bit version.
Flare would be GREAT if 100% of the developers spent 100% of their work time fixing bugs only. Much more of this and my boss is overrule my choice and force me back on Word.

[ChoccieMuffin]

I'm a new flare user, having started my eval in November 2019 and am now in Jan 2020, using Flare 2019 r2, 64bit on Windows 10, and OH MY GOD this is buggy. I submitted I think 4 bug reports during the trial period... but now that my projects are getting bigger and there are way more targets to deal with, I'm starting to lose my mind over these random and inconsistent behaviours. In case anyone else is reading this... the experience in 2020 is still the same: buggy as hell.

I came here searching for posts about 64bit Vs 32bit in terms of bugs... I'm contemplating trying the 32bit version.
Flare would be GREAT if 100% of the developers spent 100% of their work time fixing bugs only. Much more of this and my boss is overrule my choice and force me back on Word.

If you want to post about specific bugs you've found, in their own threads, you may find that the Flare glitterati have experienced them and have neat work-rounds, so please don't lose too much hope. (And welcome to the forums!)