Very discouraged with epub output

[ToddPh]

So I've just spent two days fighting with Flare 9.1.2 to get an epub output build that could pass the EpubCheck validation. I've just finished rewriting a novel I wrote a few years ago, building it as a Flare project and outputting as epub. Then I submit the epub to Smashwords and watch it fail. Then I output to Word, and again watch it fail. Finally, tonight, I took the Word output and manually cleaned it up and got it to pass all validation.

The straw that injured the proverbial dromedary was the error telling me that the PNG file with the absurdly long temporary filename did not appear to be a PNG file. I knew right then I'd had enough.

So. If Madcap is advertising that Flare can generate Epub, am I wrong to expect it to pass the validation tool that Madcap even links to in the target? Has anyone gotten this to work and pass validation? If you did, do you have any tips to share?

Thanks for listening while I rant out my frustration.

[ptg]

I'd just like to chime and and say you are not alone. I am wrestling with epub and mobi outputs. Neither seem to be able to pass validation. I can copy my mobi to my kindles and they seem to work fine. However, I can't upload either the mobi or epub to kindle for publishing. Ugh!

[ToddPh]

Well, I haven't tested a finished epub book yet, but so far my draft builds are validating when built under Flare 10. I am hopeful that this issue is resolved, but I won't know for sure until I build another novel for submission to publishers like Apple that require ePub 3.0 validation.

Crossing fingers.

[sdcinvan]

Using Flare v10...

I have been testing with the ePub validator, located here: http://validator.idpf.org/

Although my docs test as ePub v3.0, I am bothered by the fact that Flare doesn't automatically change incompatible formats, such as .svg images to a valid .png format, etc. Overall, my ePub doc fails.

[dandam]

I haven't tried to validate my EPUB yet, but it has some minor formatting issues that don't inspire confidence (such as the compiler treating <ul> as <ol> in certain circumstances, random hyperlinks don't work, etc.).

Any good workarounds? I see that Smashwords accepts Word files and Amazon's Kindle Direct Publishing (KDP) accepts a variety of formats, including Word, HTML, RTF, and PDF among others.

Is it easier to output to another format besides UPUB, and then work with the publisher (Smashwords, KDP, etc.) given that the ultimate goal is to get the content onto an e-reader?

[ToddPh]

I will admit that at the time I started this thread I was putting out a revision of a novel I wrote and gave up on Flare 9 output. Instead I created a Word output and cleaned it up, and then ran it through Smashwords to submit. That method worked without issue and validated perfectly.

I am nearly ready to produce the next volume (just need the cover art and the final edit pass) and hope to have some solid results with Flare 10 within a week or so. The biggest failure with my last attempt using Flare 9 was that the validator kept telling me that the .png image for the cover wasn't a valid .png image. When it was included (without any tweaking) with the Word manuscript there were no complaints about the .png.

Being that I have been producing only prose and no lists or hyperlinks, I may be avoiding some of the issues that Dandam has been seeing. Time will tell.

[ToddPh]

Incidentally, Matt, I was able to produce epubs all day long with Flare 9 that loaded and worked without issue on my tablet using Calibre's reader, and through the mobi outpout into Kindle. The validation issue affects distribution to bookstores like Apple's that rerquire ePub 3 validation. That might make a difference depending on how your readers will receive and use the output.

[sdcinvan]

First day back from holidays and I really didn't want to begin my week on a sour note.

I too have encountered too many issues with producing acceptable ePub output (validation checks kept failing).

Today, I was asked to look into producing Kindle versions of our documents (a very easy task in past documentation jobs)... so I re-approached my previously failed mobile document output testing and clicked the check box, "Generate MOBI file" (downloaded and added correct path for kindlegen.exe). Unfortunately, my publish test produced 100's or 1000's of quite unhelpful validation errors (not sure because Flare doesn't count the errors), an ePub file and NO mobi output!

Mobile_doc_publishing_02.png

What is the secret to outputting a mobi file? What am I doing wrong?

Mobile_doc_publishing_01.png

I'll refrain from negative remarks about Flare's mobile doc support until I understand this process a lot more. But, I'll say this... that other tool, I once used, didn't require downloading an external tool in order to produce a Kindle document.

[doc_guy]

I've never generated epub or mobi output. That said, it looks like the specific errors we could see were coming from your TOC for some reason.

Can your raise this as a support case with MadCap?

[sdcinvan]

I've never generated epub or mobi output. That said, it looks like the specific errors we could see were coming from your TOC for some reason.

Can your raise this as a support case with MadCap?

Hello Paul,

I will eventually open a ticket about that but first, I am trying to figure out what magical incantations I need to perform in order to produce Kindle output. The "Flare Targets Guide.pdf" doc is disappointingly basic and especially devoid of Kindle output content.

[sdcinvan]

I submitted a ticket. Let's see how that goes.

In the meantime, I experimented more and ended up as confused as when I began this endeavor.

Let's just focus on the mobi output log:

Code: Select all

Generating MOBI output... 
************************************************************* 
 Amazon kindlegen(Windows) V2.9 build 0731-890adc2  
 A command line e-book compiler  
 Copyright Amazon.com and its Affiliates 2013  
************************************************************* 
Warning(inputpreprocessor):W29004: Forcefully closed opened Tag: <header> 
      in file: C:\Users\shawn\AppData\Local\Temp\mbp_7DE_7_8_F_3A_39_1C2_221C_2438_1\OPS\toc0.xhtml     line: 0000009 
Info(prcgen):I1002: Parsing files  0000004 
Warning(htmlprocessor):W28001: CSS style specified in content is not supported by Kindle readers. Removing the CSS property: 'max-width' in file: C:\Users\shawn\AppData\Local\Temp\mbp_7DE_7_8_F_3A_39_1C2_221C_2438_1\OPS\Resources\Stylesheets\mobiledoc.css 
Warning(htmlprocessor):W28001: CSS style specified in content is not supported by Kindle readers. Removing the CSS property: 'column-break-after' in file: C:\Users\shawn\AppData\Local\Temp\mbp_7DE_7_8_F_3A_39_1C2_221C_2438_1\OPS\Resources\Stylesheets\mobiledoc.css 
Warning(htmlprocessor):W28001: CSS style specified in content is not supported by Kindle readers. Removing the CSS property: 'column-break-inside' in file: C:\Users\shawn\AppData\Local\Temp\mbp_7DE_7_8_F_3A_39_1C2_221C_2438_1\OPS\Resources\Stylesheets\mobiledoc.css 

.... A lot more of the same kind of error! Why can't Flare find work-arounds, rather than just deleting these styles. The styles are essential to the look of the document and without many of these the document falls apart into a big mess! How do others work around these problems?

Code: Select all

Warning(inputpreprocessor):W29004: Forcefully closed opened Tag: <p class="no_margin" madcap:autonumPosition="none" xmlns:MadCap="http://www.madcapsoftware.com/Schemas/MadCap.xsd"> 
      in file: C:\Users\shawn\AppData\Local\Temp\mbp_7DE_7_8_F_3A_39_1C2_221C_2438_1\OPS\0e_notice_page.xhtml     line: 0000010 
Warning(inputpreprocessor):W29004: Forcefully closed opened Tag: <p class="no_margin" madcap:autonumPosition="none" xmlns:MadCap="http://www.madcapsoftware.com/Schemas/MadCap.xsd"> 
      in file: C:\Users\shawn\AppData\Local\Temp\mbp_7DE_7_8_F_3A_39_1C2_221C_2438_1\OPS\0e_notice_page.xhtml     line: 0000019 
Warning(inputpreprocessor):W29004: Forcefully closed opened Tag: <p class="no_margin" madcap:autonumPosition="none" xmlns:MadCap="http://www.madcapsoftware.com/Schemas/MadCap.xsd"> 
      in file: C:\Users\shawn\AppData\Local\Temp\mbp_7DE_7_8_F_3A_39_1C2_221C_2438_1\OPS\0e_notice_page.xhtml     line: 0000049 

More of the same. I am unsure how to interpret (and correct for) these errors.

Code: Select all

Error(prcgen):E21018: Enhanced Mobi building failure, while parsing content in the file. Content: <<br/><br/>]]>> in file: C:\Users\shawn\AppData\Local\Temp\mbp_7DE_7_8_F_3A_39_1C2_221C_2438_1\OPS\00_cover_page.xhtml line: 2173
Mobi file could not be generated due to previous KindleGen errors.

 Done 
Failed to generate output.
</Messages>
  <Warnings>
    <LogEntry
      File="../../Content/1c_getting_started.htm"
      Message="Link points outside project file:///D:/_Projects/Flare/770-00010_User_Guide/Resources/Images/ico_alert_NOTE_30x27.png"
      LineIndex="-1"
      CharIndex="-1"
      Subsystem="Compiler"
      Target="ePub_test"
      ErrorID="10056"></LogEntry>
    <LogEntry
      File=""
      Message="Error(prcgen):E21018: Enhanced Mobi building failure, while parsing content in the file. Content: <<br/><br/>]]>> in file: C:\Users\shawn\AppData\Local\Temp\mbp_7DE_7_8_F_3A_39_1C2_221C_2438_1\OPS\00_cover_page.xhtml line: 2173"
      LineIndex="-1"
      CharIndex="-1"

...and much more of this!

Any insight is appreciated.

[Psider]

I think the removal of the css properties are due to the limitations of the kindle format itself. It's a fairly limited implementation of xhtml, as I understand it. Plus it looks like kindlegen is an Amazon product to convert from epub to kindle, so is probably responsible for stripping tags/styling it doesn't support.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison ... Mobipocket

If you want to publish to kindle format, then you need to write/style your content with the device in mind.

Sorry I can offer any specific tips, as I haven't had to output to epub as yet.

[sdcinvan]

If you want to publish to kindle format, then you need to write/style your content with the device in mind.

Kind of makes me question Flare's single source advantage over other tools. The fact that Flare requires a 3rd party tool for conversion makes me think that mobi output was a last minute inclusion.

I know it fails outright on my 100 plus page user guide but Flare will output mobi for my smaller documents... except, the conversions are not acceptable. It appears that a LOT of tweaking will be required. That is understandable... to remedy some of the formatting problems, I'll make a new stylesheet MEDIUM called, @media mobidoc. My big concern is that I have a lot of content that I cannot see translating very well.

[doc_guy]

Hmm. I'm interested to see how this works. I'm going to try to download the MOBI parser and try to build a Kindle file. I'll let you know how it goes.

-Paul

[doc_guy]

I have a fairly simple target that I'm building, and I downloaded the KindleGen file and I tried to build output and I can't get it to build successfully either. I'm not sure what the problems are, but it is much more difficult that I expected. I'm going to investigate this further and let you know if I am able to successfully build an epub output. (Honestly, I couldn't get it to work even with the "Build Kindle MOBI" option unselected.)

[doc_guy]

In another project, I successfully built the epub file, but the Kindle conversion failed.

Has *anybody* successfully built a Kindle.mobi output? What was your secret?

[sdcinvan]

In another project, I successfully built the epub file, but the Kindle conversion failed.

Has *anybody* successfully built a Kindle.mobi output? What was your secret?

Greetings Paul,

I appreciate your effort! Thank you.

I was able to "successfully" build .mobi docs with my much simpler (less than 10 page) documents. By "successfully", I only mean that I achieved a .mobi document but formatting-wise, I need to some (or a lot) of work by making stylesheet exceptions to fix some really poor formatting.

I don't know a lot about using Flare to create ePub and Kindle documents but when I opened the compressed mobi/ePub file, I was surprised/disappointed to learn that Flare doesn't do the following:
- No native conversion (relies on a 3rd party tool)
- No image conversion
- No automatic image reduction (i.e. there is absolutely no need for 4k x 4k pixel images in a mobile document)

I have an open ticket with MadCap and I'll share what I learn, next week.

[sdcinvan]

I was really trying to refrain from comparing Flare to others... but I just converted a far more complex InDesign document (than my Flare User Guide) to ePub using just a simple "Export to fixed layout ePub" option and the output was remarkably PERFECT!

InDesign doesn't support .mobi, so I used Calibre to convert the ePub to .mobi format. Well, that remarkable Adobe conversion to ePub was ripped apart by the Calibre conversion to .mobi. *BUT* then I downloaded the Kindle Previewer tool and with that tool, I was able to produce a near-perfect .mobi version of my InDesign document.

But getting back to my original point. Adobe has made conversion to ePub quite painless... shouldn't we expect the same from MadCap?

[doc_guy]

I certainly agree that I expected the conversion to be much smoother than I experienced. I gave up, having not gotten the .mobi file to successfully publish.

If only we could have a Flare target for InDesign.

[sdcinvan]

I certainly agree that I expected the conversion to be much smoother than I experienced. I gave up, having not gotten the .mobi file to successfully publish.

If only we could have a Flare target for InDesign.

I have an open ticket with Flare... putting them on the spot I'll certainly share my findings.

Earlier in the thread, someone suggested that your documents need to be setup specifically for mobile format in mind. While that is true to a certain extent (because some elements have no equivalent in mobile doc format), I think the least we should expect is intelligent and decent conversion to ePub format, with minimal effort, just like all the Flare competitor products.

[doc_guy]

Agreed. Flare doesn't require me to design my topics to work in a printed format vs. an online format. I just write my topics, and I can publish them to HTML5, Webhelp, PDF, or Framemaker. I have to modify my TARGET file, which makes total sense, but Flare automatically converts things like drop-down text to inline text, and pop-up text to footnotes. I would expect that same level of intelligent conversion with any supported output type, including epub. It's not unreasonable to expect that, in my opinion.

[sdcinvan]

Has anyone seen this?

If you have images that were edited in MadCap Capture with added text bubbles, publishing to ePub makes undesirable changes to the bubbles.

[doc_guy]

"Undesirable" is a charitable way of putting it.

No. I haven't tried that yet.

[sdcinvan]

"Undesirable" is a charitable way of putting it.

No. I haven't tried that yet.

I think it is rather interesting that when Flare publishes, it also interacts with Capture and appears to perform a re-rendering of images edited in Capture. Well, that is the only explanation as to why the text bubbles remained their original size, while the background image reduced in size... can't do that to a flat file.

Too bad it only gets an 'E' for effort.

[doc_guy]

Yeah, Flare always regenerates images when publishing. That is to capture any changes in the xml or whatever that may have occurred since it was last published.