Capture or Snagit.

[Kat se gat]

Folks, I'm looking at upgrading my v8 to v10 and was also wondering whether to include Capture as well. I've been a long-time user of Snagit and it's editing facilities are quite good. I know my question is a bit like asking a chicken why its eggs are so good but is there anything radical in Capture that makes it a must buy compared to Snagit?

[Nita Beck]

Capture is now bundled with Flare, no extra charge. If you upgrade to Flare 10, you'll get Capture 6.

[Kat se gat]

Nita,

Thanks for the heads-up on that. To be sure, the price of Capture isn't a bank-breaker but free is even better.

[sdcinvan]

I purchased Capture, as part of the MadPak but I also own Snagit.

In eight months, I have not found any love for Capture. I find it cumbersome, convoluted, and quite non-intuitive. It also lacks support in surprising places... such as no support for vector images such as .svg. *but* it does support .xps. Huh? Why? Also, pointers (and appearance options) - where are they? You can literally build a million variations of an arrow but no pointers (cursor doesn't count)! Also... no captions or call-outs. And is there support for libraries of frequently used objects? I don't know...

Snagit? Oh, how I love to hate this tool. It is FAST. You can capture, edit, and save very, very quickly! It is a jack of many trades but master of NONE! But I use it every single day!
Yes, Snag has its own failings... especially annoying is that it only support vector format in its own .snag file. Everything else is bitmap and don't bother to point this out to the company.

Well, I would really love it if I am wrong about MadCap Capture because I really want it to be part of my daily workflow. Looking forward to enlightened responses.

[atomdocs]

I had Snagit before I started using Flare/Capture. I still use both tools and I love both. Snagit is fast, so I use it for everyday stuff - quick caps to put in emails or IMs.

But Capture is hidden treasure. I didn't like it at first - I think general consensus is that it is less intuitive than e.g. Snagit. But I pushed on, used it with a project, and suddenly the clouds parted and a ray of sunshine illuminated my laptop, and there might have even been triumphal music in the background.

The real power of Capture is the way it integrates completely with your Flare project (e.g. you can use variables and conditions from your project in captions), and all edits in Capture are instantly updated in Flare. The recapture function is golden: capture a button and add it to your project. If the colour scheme changes or the button icon changes, just hit recapture and both the screenshot and your project are instantly updated (Capture remembers the portion of the screen that you captured before - *edit*: and it remembers if you applied a crop). In my Snagit workflow, recapturing requires much more effort and my heart sinks whenever I have to do it.

Capture automates as much of the capture process as you want: you can apply capture "profiles" as you work - they are macros that automatically apply transformations that you use regularly. Also, actions like cropping are non-destructive. You can revert to the full capture at any time.

Captions are stored as text in an XML sidecar file, so you can send them to translation. And I think Flare v10 includes an auto-resize function for captions... I need to investigate that.

Shawn - libraries are definitely supported, Capture calls them palettes. Anything you create in Capture (you can also import any image, symbol, or icon from file) can be added to a palette for future reuse.

I definitely recommend putting some time in to discover what Capture can do with Flare. (There is a recorded Webinar on the MadCap website.) The fact that Capture is free with Flare is insane. It is invaluable. I love it.

[Kat se gat]

I'm a bit confused now, folks. I downloaded only the Flare v10 trial copy. On the Tools tab there's a MadCap Launch item for Capture. When I select it, I get a dialog (see attached image). I've highlighted some of the relevant text. Do I really get Capture as part of the Flare v10 upgrade only or is it only available in a bundled package? Perhaps Capture isn't available until a paid-for licence is applied?

My attachment was done with Snagit (snigger, snigger).

Unfortunately, no parting clouds, no ray of sunshine, and alas, no triumphal music.

[NorthEast]

I'm a bit confused now, folks. I downloaded only the Flare v10 trial copy.

You install Capture separately to Flare.

On my download link for Flare, the page had three 'download' buttons - Flare, DotNet help viewer, and Capture 6.0.

[Kat se gat]

Thanks Dave. I remember the download options. I'll download Capture now and see what it's about.

[atomdocs]

Hope it works for you, Peter. Don't let first impressions put you off. Test it with a Flare project using some fully pimped captures, don't draw conclusions just on the initial capture tools. Triumphal music is not earned cheaply.

[Scotty]

I've been using Capture for a few years now. I haven't tried SnagIt.

The integration with Flare was and still is the #1 attraction. Works really well. To be honest, the rest is so-so - quite clunky, some bizarre behaviour with a few things that should be fundamentally sound, some annoying UI interactions, somewhat unattractive shapes, some annoying omissions.

BUT, it's 'free' ( ) and you can usually end up with something along the lines of what you want to do, given time.

[ChoccieMuffin]

What I really didn't like with Capture was my inability to get screenshots with nicely rounded corners (transparent in the bits that the rounded corners cut off). I admit I didn't try very hard because it's so simple to do in SnagIt, but if someone can point me to instructions on getting the same, I could be convinced. Meantime, it's SnagIt all the way for me.

[Msquared]

I first tried the version of Capture that came with Flare 7, and found some bugs that made it unworkable for me. I'm sure they've been addressed by now, as I remember speaking to Mike Hamilton about them at a conference a couple of years ago, and he was already aware of them then.

However, I stuck with SnagIt, because so far, I've not needed the Flare integration features. But I attended a presentation at last year's TCUK conference by Mike Hamilton about using Capture with Flare, and made a mental note to investigate. He showed off some very interesting features, and I think if I had enough time to investigate, and had a need for some of the features that integrate with Flare, I could be hooked too.

So much technology, so little time . . .

[RamonS]

I used Capture in the past and also use SnagIt and I understand the complaint of Capture being not as straight forward like PaintShop Pro (OK, I only know version 6 which I still use), but Snagit has its own set of annoying oddities that make me wonder who ever thought that those were good ideas. SnagIt is a collection of disjointed pieces that require a lot of clicking and switching and swerving to get where you need to go paired with the notorious inability to remember any style selections in the editor. Still, SnagIt is for sure better than MS Paint...

[chunkee]

I like to use SnagIT. If I need to make a change, I simply right click on the image file and select open in SnagIT Editor. I make the changes and click the save button and it updates in Flare.

John C

[atomdocs]

John, does that work if there are callouts in the image?

[sdcinvan]

John, does that work if there are callouts in the image?

I'll answer for John...

The huge 'problem' with Snagit and call outs is that you need to save the file as a .snag to avoid flattening the image. This also means that you need to save a separate flattened image that is compatible with Flare. In this regard, Snagit isn't ideal if you add call outs or other overlays to your images. If you decide to save a separate 'source' .snag image, you still can't easily update the background bitmap!

Because of this, Capture seems like the perfect tool because it allows you to have overlays and allows for easy updating of the background bitmap.

The problem? (repeating my earlier post) It has a rather poor selection of overlay (call outs and pointers) objects. BUT Capture has so much potential... it's almost the perfect tool but it is infuriating that it is missing some essential points. Perhaps we should start a thread about what Capture needs... a top ten list?

Just because the tool [Capture] is now free is irrelevant if it doesn't meet our requirements.

For this reason, I found that only InDesign can offer me the flexibility by allowing me to create custom pointers and also allows easy background bitmap updates.

Here is a [not-so-great] example of what I need to accomplish in Capture:

cant do this.png

This InDesign example uses Japanese dot pointer lines, circle on top, the pointer line is locked and centered on the call out box, the grey box has an 80% transparency, and the inside text is centered. This Call Out (with pointer) is a library object that can be instantly recalled and even modified (changes propagate to all). Like I previously mentioned, the background bitmap can be instantly updated but I still need to work with three images: 1) Original screen capture; 2) Source file with overlays; 3) Final Flare flattened bitmap [.png, etc.] image.

[atomdocs]

Thanks Shawn. Yeah, that was my concern: having to work with flat files. In my non-Flare workflow I use Inkscape to layer up bitmap images and vector callouts/overlays, and then export the png. I keep the svg source for future modifications, but it still means several steps when updating images. This is one the main reasons I love Capture: it's a one-stop shop.

But your point is a good one: if Capture doesn't have the callouts you need, it's a speedbump. Capture definitely does support libraries - another reason I like it. But there's clearly a need for some preset callout sets. I expect there is an opportunity for a shared community resource for Flare users there...

You've set a great challenge with your image. I'm going to have a go and see what I can come up with.

[sdcinvan]

But your point is a good one: if Capture doesn't have the callouts you need, it's a speedbump. Capture definitely does support libraries - another reason I like it. But there's clearly a need for some preset callout sets. I expect there is an opportunity for a shared community resource for Flare users there...

But if the desired pointers and call outs can be created in Capture (or close variation) and made into a library (or palette ), I'd be golden!

You've set a great challenge with your image. I'm going to have a go and see what I can come up with.

Thanks... I was a bit embarrassed to post that example because it is an older prototype (I'm not in the office yet) but I decided it was good enough to illustrate what cannot be accomplished in MadCap Capture.

[chunkee]

John, does that work if there are callouts in the image?

Hi Tom,

You can add callouts initially, but after you save them, you cannot edit them as they become flattened. I wish there was a better way for it to handle vector images, but there is not.

Perhaps we should get together with a programmer and create such a nice screen capture app with the vector component.
jC

[atomdocs]

Hi John

That's the benefit of Capture: you can keep the link between the output image in your Flare project, and the layered image in Capture. If you need to move, resize, or edit a caption (or other overlay), you just do it in Capture and your Flare project updates automatically - single-step image maintenance = massive time saver / grey hair preventer.

The problem with Capture is that the range of annotations is limited. I'd like to see many more line options e.g. line caps, different pointers - the Capture arrow tool allows mind-bogglingly infinite tweaks to arrows, but what we really need is more shape options for heads and tails. I'm finding it hard to reproduce Shawn's example above, but I'm still trying. If MadCap could expand the line options in Capture, that would be great (I need to put in a feature request).

[sdcinvan]

I'm finding it hard to reproduce Shawn's example above, but I'm still trying. If MadCap could expand the line options in Capture, that would be great (I need to put in a feature request).

I applaud (and appreciate) your effort. Unfortunately, after spending a few frustrating hours on this myself, MadCap Capture presented too many road blocks. It isn't just the design I presented but I also tried to duplicate other types of annotations found in Apple and VMware documentation (two companies who produce outstanding/exemplary documentation) and Capture just can't do any of it. Did the MadCap Capture team ever consult with tech writers? Is it that it is not considered a priority tool and therefore, few resources are allocated?

In my opinion, the other major failing is that Capture doesn't support vector (import and export) files. Excuse me, it has .xps (but who the heck uses .xps format??). Bitmap .png may be fine for web output but vector (i.e. .svg) is absolutely essential in print publications.

IMHO, a good feature request would include (in order of importance - to me):
- Import and export of vector images (.svg, .eps, .pdf)
- More customizable line modes (i.e. Japanese dots, double lines, dashed lines, etc.)
- Additional arrow head styles (currently, there are a million variations of the same arrow but what about a square/diamond head, round circle head, round hollow circle head, etc.)
- Customizable call-outs (more than just a speaking caption style - how about square boxes)
- Allow editing of individual components within grouped objects (e.g. if there is text within a grouped object, it must be ungrouped before the text can be edited)

[Tekwriterman]

As a MadCap user from day one, I agree that while I sooo want to work more with Capture, I need features that are just not there (yet, we hope).

I can't have a dotted line/arrow? Come on . As listed previously, please add to wish list for Capture (at least):

- More customizable line modes (i.e. Japanese dots, double lines, dashed lines, etc.)
- Additional arrow head styles (currently, there are a million variations of the same arrow but what about a square/diamond head, round circle head, round hollow circle head, etc.)
- Customizable call-outs (more than just a speaking caption style - how about square boxes)

Chucks, even Word can do some of these...

I expect these will soon (very soon?) appear as tools with Capture.

Thanks!

[ChoccieMuffin]

To have more of a chance getting things included, I suggest you put in a feature request. Although Madcap does take a look at the forum, this is not the proper way to make a request. See my footer for a link.

[sdcinvan]

As a MadCap user from day one, I agree that while I sooo want to work more with Capture, I need features that are just not there (yet, we hope).

I can't have a dotted line/arrow? Come on . As listed previously, please add to wish list for Capture (at least):

- More customizable line modes (i.e. Japanese dots, double lines, dashed lines, etc.)
- Additional arrow head styles (currently, there are a million variations of the same arrow but what about a square/diamond head, round circle head, round hollow circle head, etc.)
- Customizable call-outs (more than just a speaking caption style - how about square boxes)

Chucks, even Word can do some of these...

I expect these will soon (very soon?) appear as tools with Capture.

Thanks!

The fact is, without a more capable Capture (or equivalent), Flare is an incomplete documentation tool. I urge everyone to push MadCap to place more resources into developing either Capture or a suitable replacement tool. Please send in a feature request.

This is what I would like to see improved or added:
- Import, export, and editing of vector images (.svg, .eps, .pdf) - Especially .svg and .pdf
> Saving flat bitmapped images at a limited resolution is not ideal for print or pdf publishing.
- Full support for OTF PS fonts (like recently added to Flare)
- Image overlays that are independant of bitmap resolution.
> Meaning: Overlays such as bubble text can remain at a consistent size, regardless of image reduction, as placed in the document.
- Text bubbles with multiple pointers
- Lines with Bézier curve control
- Automated (batch) image updating (useful for those who need to regularly update screen captures but keep all the same overlays or other edits).
- More customizable line modes (i.e. Japanese dots, double lines, dashed lines, etc.)
- Additional arrow head styles (currently, there are a million variations of the same arrow but what about a square/diamond head, round circle head, round hollow circle head, etc.)
- Customizable call-outs (more than just a speaking caption style - how about square boxes)
- Allow editing of individual components within grouped objects (e.g. if there is text within a grouped object, it must be ungrouped before the text can be edited)

Best regards,
Shawn

[ChoccieMuffin]

Request submitted as you wrote it, with the addition of:

"Ability to capture rounded corners in dialog boxes. Currently the curves and the top of the dialog box are just cut off, so the image is not good enough to use. (Back to SnagIt again.)"