Autonumbers and HTML 5 Output?

[dorcutt]

Hello,

I'm a new Flare user, so please excuse any accidental newbie-ness.

So, I'm migrating documents from Word to a single-source setup primarily designed for digital PDF and HTML5 web-help outputs. In the help topics, I see that autonumbering is supported in all "print-based outputs," including PDF and XHTML, but not HTML5.

Is there any way to use autonumbering in HTML5, or am I stuck with basic lists? Because most of my content are exercises that were created with large amounts of Word mutli-level lists, this is a crucial question for me.

Thanks!

-Dan

[Nita Beck]

Hi Dan. Welcome to the forums! We were all newbies once, so you're in good company here.

Are you sure you're talking about auto-numbering and not custom lists? Custom list formats were added in Flare 10, and they indeed apply only to print outputs. But I know of no restrictions about autonumbering in online output, including HTML5 output. I use autonumbers in my online help systems all the time, for a variety of purposes.

[dorcutt]

Hrm, yes, I wasn't really aware that there was a difference based on my initial help topic readings.

I don't see any reason why I can't accomplish what I'm after by using autonumbering and some judicious creation and application of styles, though it'll be a bit less elegant than a custom list I think. Thanks for clearing that up!

[Nita Beck]

Other users have created complex selectors (I think by hand) in their stylesheets to get "custom" multi-level lists. Maybe they'll stop by and offer suggestions. Hey Lisa (LTinker68), you use complex selectors for lists, right? Perhaps you can offer Dan some advice. I tend to just use defaults for my multi-level lists. Oh, and some folks use custom paragraph classes with autonumbers instead of using list items to format their lists. Anyone got some advice for Dan?

[dorcutt]

Specifically, what we've been using in Word is a Multilevel list with the following attributes:

Chapter X (Big honkin' orange letters)
Exercise X.Y (Still pretty sizeable orange letters)
Exercise Section (A), B),C)) (kinda big orange letters)
Step X (reasonable orange letters)
Step Section (A., B., C.) (same size orange letters)
Action X) (orange letters only 1 font size bigger than standard text, bolded)

Clearly, the web-help system would have much less... involved... numbering. Exercises would not be numbered, just titled, but I'd still like to replicate the list formats Step or lower.

Maybe I'm naive, but this seems pretty doable based on what I know about autonumbering from the help topics, now that I know it's available in HTML5. Also, suppressing the exercise numbering in the online output seems easy enough, in that vague way that also has me suspecting I might lose hair over it instead.

[SteveS]

I'll jump in quickly...

You can manage mutli-level lists in Flare, but as I don't have access to it at the moment (and I can't remember off the top of my head) someone else will have to chime in with the steps.

You can manage the formatting of the list items, as Nita suggests, in the style sheet using complex selectors.

For example:

Code: Select all

OL { list-style: decimal;}
OL OL { list-style: lower-alpha;}
OL OL OL {list-style: lower-roman;}

This should create a list:
1. item
a sub item
i sub sub item

You can then format each list level by adding styling to each of the selectors:

Code: Select all

OL {list-style: decimal;
font-size: 3em;
color: orange;}

HTH

[ChoccieMuffin]

Specifically, what we've been using in Word is a Multilevel list with the following attributes:

Chapter X (Big honkin' orange letters)
Exercise X.Y (Still pretty sizeable orange letters)
Exercise Section (A), B),C)) (kinda big orange letters)
Step X (reasonable orange letters)
Step Section (A., B., C.) (same size orange letters)
Action X) (orange letters only 1 font size bigger than standard text, bolded)

I think you've combined two different bits of functionality - paragraph/heading numbering (which I would use for the first three items) and then nested lists (which I would use for the step bits).

[NorthEast]

Firstly, I'm not sure the help is correct, or at least it's misleading, as you can use some types of autonumber formats in HTML5.
For example, a global counter like GH:{n+} appears to work, as does the {chapnum} chapter number. Fair enough, page numbering and a few other things aren't going to work, but some autonumbering does appear to work in HTML5.

Also, from what you've described, it sounds like most of what you want are autonumbered heading levels - rather than lists.

Presumably everything from 'Chapter x' to 'Step x' is a heading level, and these could include an autonumber format for these headings.

If 'Step section' is when you start the actual list; you could either use a standard list (a,b,c), or use an autonumber format on the list for more formatting options (e.g. if you want the a,b,c to be a different colour to the list text).

If you want different styles or numbering formats for print and help outputs, set up the styles in a different medium for each output type.

[dorcutt]

Well, thanks for the wealth of responses here! I'm not 100% sure what is going to work best until I try it out in practice, but you've all given me a wide variety of perspectives and tools that I was previously lacking.

When I actually get to dig into this further (stupid non-Flare job responsibilities and deadlines!) then I'll be sure to share any progress I make.

[dorcutt]

Hello all,

Just as a follow-up on this, per the suggestions in this thread, I did end up using a mixture of headings, lists, and complex selectors.

• Chapter is an h1 class, the name of a group of exercises is an H2 class, and the exercise titles are an h3 class. They all use autonumbering
• Exercise Section and Step are classes of p with autonumbering
• I eliminated "step section" entirely... I'll just break those into two steps
• Action X is a numbered list class.

I learned several key things:

• Due to the way the "Use TOC depth" option works, I had to set up classes for, say, Exercise Title at the H2 and H4 level as well in case they end up getting displaced due to a strange setup in a particular printed document. When I do online output, this might have to change
• I originally had Exercise Part and Step set up as H4 and H5 styles. This was a terrible idea. Issues related to TOC Depth changes made this a living nightmare. Changing them to P styles solved so many headaches.
• Setting up the list items for action was key. I highly recommend this article for setting up "step lists": http://www.flareforhelp.com/2012/07/con ... cap-flare/
• Complex selectors are super simple to use and just great in every way.

Thanks again for everyone's feedback; it was extremely helpful. I hope my learning experience helps someone else along the way as well.

[Phlawm53]

------
I've read this thread and am wondering how many hoops I'd need to jump through to get autonumbering into an HTML5 Target's TOC panel.

Per the Flare OLH topic About Autonumbers, and as noted in this thread, This feature is supported in EPUB and in all print outputs (Adobe FrameMaker, Adobe PDF, Microsoft Word, Microsoft XPS, XHTML). (See http://webhelp.madcapsoftware.com/flare ... umbers.htm)

Okay, what I have are some task topics that begin with an autonumbered H1 class ala:

Code: Select all

.numberedTask
{
	mc-auto-number-format: 'CT:Task {n+}: ';
}

This works great in PDF, producing TOC entries of the form Task 1: View the Getting Started Project.

I'd like to also get the "Task n:" bit into an HTML5 Target's TOC entries. Any ideas?

------
By the by, I'll add in passing that the use of the colon (":") in the autonumbering spec appears to collide with the use of the TOC Properties Replace with Computed Entries feature. See http://forums.madcapsoftware.com/viewto ... =9&t=20469

Cheers & thanks,
Riley
SFO

[Nita Beck]

For any online output, what is used to populate the Contents panel is driven entirely by what is contained in the TOC file. Flare does not change the text of TOC items at all. Doesn't matter if you've got auto-numbering for headings. This is the way a TOC file has worked for online output since way back with WinHelp.

The confusion arises because, for print output, MadCap chose to use the TOC file as the means for specifying which topics to include and in what hierarchy. For print output, Flare actually doesn't use the text of TOC items but instead the headings in the designated topics; hence, you'll see auto numbers in the generated table of contents in the output.

[NorthEast]

Nita - You can replace the help TOC entry text with the heading from the topic, by using the Replace with Computed Entries feature that Riley mentions.

Riley - I'm assuming you've tried this option and know that it works (well, apart from using a colon in the autonumber), so what is the problem in your output? Getting numbers in the topic headings and the TOC shouldn't be a problem, but I don't know if/how you control the numbering itself.

[Nita Beck]

I humbly stand corrected and bow to your obviously superior knowledge, my friend!

[Phlawm53]

Riley - I'm assuming you've tried this option and know that it works (well, apart from using a colon in the autonumber), so what is the problem in your output?

At this point the inability to use colons in the headings is a show-stopper -- Flare 10 generates the TOC entries but clicking those generated TOC entries results in an essentially fatal "can't load the page" error.

So for the time being I'm casting about for alternatives. But longer-term here's hoping Replace with Computed Entries becomes the answer to the problem…

Cheers & thanks,
Riley
SFO

[NorthEast]

Riley - I'm assuming you've tried this option and know that it works (well, apart from using a colon in the autonumber), so what is the problem in your output?

At this point the inability to use colons in the headings is a show-stopper — Flare 10 generates the TOC entries but clicking those generated TOC entries results in an essentially fatal "can't load the page at…" error.

So for the time being I'm casting about for alternatives. But longer-term here's hoping Replace with Computed Entries becomes the answer to the problem…

If you remove the colon, the entries in your TOC should be replaced by your topic titles, incorporating the autonumber format.
I know that part works, but I've not spent time to figure out how the autonumbers are applied in a help output - they might not be numbered in the order you expect/want.

[dorcutt]

So, I got very excited by the "Replace with Computed Entries" option. However, it appears that the WebSkin TOC uses the topic's H1 title as I wanted, but that the HTML5 Mini Toc Proxies are still using the actual text of the TOC entry, not the computed entry.

Is this a bug, or is this expected behavior? Is there a different way of doing this for a mini toc?

I am SO close to eliminating a huge amount of stupidity from my single-source Word, PDF, and HTML TOC if I can get this to work.

Thanks!

Update: I'm encountering the exact same colon issue, also. The pretty "correct" link in my webskin generated using the "Replace with Computed Entries" option does not work due to the semicolon.

Update 2: The Breadcrumb trail is also incorrect. Maybe I'm missing something, but what good is this option at all if it doesn't work with MiniTOCS and Breadcrumb proxies (not to mention colons)?

[the documentator]

I have a TOC will multiple books - that have a topic linked to the book. I want to have the auto-number appear in the html output in the Contents tab. Is there a way to do this? I reviewed the instructions for Replace with Computed Entries but it wipes out the books and the sub-topics.