Table stylesheets messing up column widths (resolved)

[ChoccieMuffin]

Afternoon all.

I have a simple table style defined, where the first column is 15 em wide (20 em for print) with second and subsequent column widths set at Auto. This works fine for what I need in most cases, but in one table I have inserted another table inside a cell in column 2. When I generate the PDF, in this table only the first column ends up really narrow so that it splits single words. The tables inside column 2 are fine.

I tried removing the table stylesheet from the table in column 2, that didn't make any difference.

Any suggestions for what I have missed?

I realised after I first posted this that it wasn't just nested tables where the problem was but in all tables formatted with a table stylesheet where the table width is set to "auto". See the last post for how I finally got round it.

[Msquared]

I'd guess that something somewhere in your table (the main one, or the table in the second column) has also set widths on one or more cells/columns. That's usually what causes odd layout issues for me. So have a look at table spans at the top of your topic, or the XML code for your table and see if there are any explicit widths set. If so, get rid of them.

The other thing you could try if this isn't it, is changing the em sizing to something else temporarily, say , simply because em is a relative size, so perhaps Flare has got confused over what it's relative to. Perhaps you could try a measurement in px. Again if that fixes it, at least, you know what's happened.

[ChoccieMuffin]

Thanks for the suggestions, Marjorie. Very helpful, as usual.

In both the main and nested tables the first column had a defined width and the second was set as auto. The problem was that both tables had the same set width whereas only the main table should have had, so Flare couldn't resolve both the main and the nested tables having the same width. Changed the width of the nested table to Auto and it all fell nicely into place.

[ChoccieMuffin]

A further problem, this time with a table that is defined with a table stylesheet but has 3 columns.

Width of table and column 3 is auto
Width of columns 1 and 2 is 15em.

When I apply this tablestyle to a 3-column table, all of a sudden the right margin jumps in, so it's about 2 inches from the edge of the body rather than right up against the right edge. I also notice that the heading on column 2 all of a sudden becomes right-aligned, even though I have specifically set the alignment on both the columns and the headers as Left and Top.

Can any of you suggest a solution? I've been scratching my head over this for hours!

[NorthEast]

Width of table and column 3 is auto

Going by your screenshot, column 3 is 1px and not auto.

When I apply this tablestyle to a 3-column table, all of a sudden the right margin jumps in, so it's about 2 inches from the edge of the body rather than right up against the right edge.

There is a margin on the left too, not just the right.

As you've set each column width (15em + 15em + 1px), and your table width is auto, that means you've told your table to be a fixed size; therefore it won't fill the page width.

The position of the table and its margin sizes will depend on what you've set in the table stylesheet, and could also inherit anything you've set for table properties in your topic CSS.

I also notice that the heading on column 2 all of a sudden becomes right-aligned, even though I have specifically set the alignment on both the columns and the headers as Left and Top.

The heading in column 2 is different as it contains a p (paragraph) tag inside the th; so perhaps unbind the p tag.

[ChoccieMuffin]

Going by your screenshot, column 3 is 1px and not auto.

My stupid error, that wasn't supposed to be there. Corrected that now, but the right margin hasn't changed, even though I tried refreshing my display, closing the topic and opening it.

There is a margin on the left too, not just the right.

The left margin of 1 inch is correct as defined in the stylesheet. (I did mention that in the table itself but should have mentioned it in my post as well. Sorry. again!)

The heading in column 2 is different as it contains a p (paragraph) tag inside the th; so perhaps unbind the p tag.

Well spotted eagle-eye Lee, I removed that and all sorted. (I think that's a cue for another blushing smiley! )

As you've set each column width (15em + 15em + 1px), and your table width is auto, that means you've told your table to be a fixed size; therefore it won't fill the page width.
The position of the table and its margin sizes will depend on what you've set in the table stylesheet, and could also inherit anything you've set for table properties in your topic CSS.

I've fixed the width of column 3, BUT MY TABLE IS STILL RUBBISH!

In my css, <table> is defined as follows with no mention at all of right margins. The first table in my screenshot is a "vanilla" <table>, so nothing strange or startling there. (For clarity I only use print and non-print mediums - there's nothing defined in default at all).

@non-print
table
{
margin-top: 1em;
margin-left: 1%;
border: none;
margin-bottom: 2%;
}

@print
table
{
width: auto;
margin-bottom: .15in;
}

So what on earth can I do now?

Also I've noticed some odd behaviour in the XML editor. When I type in a cell in a table that has a table stylesheet applied to it, the column gets narrower and narrower until it's only about 8 characters wide, but if I press backspace it jumps back to the correct size. Going to log that as a bug, but don't know if that has something to do with my table's odd behaviour.

[ChoccieMuffin]

I have added my question about strange behaviour when editing tables to a different thread, but I'm still stuck on the incorrect right margin when I apply a table stylesheet. Any suggestions, please?

[Msquared]

I found that I had to manually add the following to the table code in the text version of the topic.

margin-left: 0;margin-right: auto;

Otherwise, I see exactly what you are seeing in some tables. Setting the table margin properties in the table style sheet doesn't seem to work although it should.

I probably should get round to reporting this as a bug, since this is effectively hard-coding the styles for the left and right margins, whereas you may want to use different values for different mediums. I want to do this and I can't.

For example, I have a table stylesheet for full-width tables and another for indented tables. The first I use for wide tables that are better spread across the full width of my PDF content, and the second for tables that I want to line up with my left hand print margin (which is at 70pt). But for my online medium (which doesn't have a 70pt left margin), I want both the full-width table and the indented table to have a margin of 0. Since I have to hard-code the table left margin in the topic to get it to show correctly in the printed output, I'm stuck.

I should probably get round to reporting this as a bug, along with some other table stylesheet bugs I've been sitting on.

[ChoccieMuffin]

Cheers for your suggestions, Marjorie, but that didn't work. (Meh.)

I've had a reply from Tech Support but that was just asking me to repeat what I'd said in the original bug report, so I think I'll have more emails bouncing back and forth before I get anything I can use.

Please go ahead and add your table stylesheet bugs, so Tech Support don't think I'm on my own with this!

[NorthEast]

I found that I had to manually add the following to the table code in the text version of the topic.

margin-left: 0;margin-right: auto;

Otherwise, I see exactly what you are seeing in some tables. Setting the table margin properties in the table style sheet doesn't seem to work although it should.

I probably should get round to reporting this as a bug, since this is effectively hard-coding the styles for the left and right margins, whereas you may want to use different values for different mediums. I want to do this and I can't. :-(

Setting table margins in CSS does work; from the bottom up as follows:

1) In the topic stylesheet, if you set margins for table this will apply to all tables; e.g.:
table { margin-left: 0; margin-right: auto; }

2) If the table also uses a table stylesheet, you can also set the margins in the table stylesheet. These will override the margins set in your topic stylesheet. (they take precedence as they're set for that table class table.yourTable). However, note that the table stylesheet editor doesn't have an auto setting for margins (default means nothing is set, it doesn't mean 'auto').

3) When you insert a table in a topic, if you select Align in table properties, that will actually set an inline style on the table with margin-left and margin-right settings.


I'd guess (3) is what causes your problems, so ensure Align is set to (default), so you don't have inline margins overriding anything you've set in the stylesheet(s).



From: http://forums.madcapsoftware.com/viewto ... 983#p99521

Check the individual table properties, I would guess that Align is set to Left instead of (Default).

Align doesn't actually set alignment as you might expect; e.g. left align sets margin-left: 0 and margin-right: auto; right align is vice-versa; and center uses auto for both margins.

I guess MadCap wanted to implement an 'alignment' setting like you see in other apps, but there isn't actually a corresponding alignment property in CSS - it's handled using margins.

[ChoccieMuffin]

I am deliberately avoiding any inline styling while trying to figure this out, because that way lies madness. So before I even applied my table stylesheet I checked the code editor to ensure that it was just <table> and not <table style="margin-left:0; margin-right: auto;" >. I then right-clicked the table block on the very left of the screen and applied the tablestyle to the table from there, without going anywhere near the Table Properties dialog box (to avoid inadvertently applying any inline styles).

Nowhere in the table stylesheet have I set the right margin to anything at all, so I'm flummoxed.

(And the Flare docs on this topic are distinctly unhelpful, as they spend a lot of time explaining how to apply inline styles when that is specifically NOT a good idea!)

[ChoccieMuffin]

OK, we finally have an answer.

Table stylesheets do not work correctly (the width doesn't do what it's supposed to do). A bug has been entered (94303) to that effect.

Tech Support's suggestion was this: "Set the Table Properties (for each table) > AutoFitBehaivor > AutoFit to window > 100%. This will cause the tables to appear all the way across the screen in the XML editor in the web layout or print layout (with respect to the body frame of the page layout). "

That's fine, but it didn't solve my problem, as there's no way I want to manually edit every single table in a massive number of topics, and then have to edit them again once the problem is fixed, and there's no way to adjust the setting per medium.

For my two mediums I need to specify a table width, but to make matters worse, the table stylesheet editor doesn't include a way to do that, so I had to go digging through the code of the table stylesheet. I managed to achieve what I needed to achieve, but the two bugs conspired to take me to new levels of frustration!

So others don't have the same pain, here's how I managed to sort out my problem.

When you create a table stylesheet the code contains two sections, helpfully labelled "/*<meta Version="9" />*/" and "/* Cell Styles: */"

In order to add the setting for the width of the table you have to go to the section labelled "/* Cell Styles: */" rather than the first section.

Open each medium, and in the .Table Style-[stylename] bit, add "width: 100%;" (or whatever width you need - my print version needed a width of 6.5in so that's what I added in the print medium and I put 100% in the non-print medium).

And don't forget, if you ever nest a table, for example in a list, if you had to add a specific width you may need to include a complex selector in your stylesheet, for example "li table.TableStyle-Basic" with a different width. (This is likely to be more necessary in a print medium than an online medium.)

I have requested that they raise a bug for the lack of ability to set the width of a table in the table stylesheet.

That was an EXTREMELY painful experience, I hope I don't need to contact Tech Support again any time soon!

[NorthEast]

Table stylesheets do not work correctly (the width doesn't do what it's supposed to do).

The table stylesheet editor doesn't have any setting for width; Flare just allows you to set table widths on the table itself (via properties).
If you didn't have the tables set to 100% width, that explains why you could see margins.

Anyway, I'd be cautious about putting the CSS in the table stylesheet itself; since the CSS is regenerated whenever you modify the table in the table stylesheet editor.

You can just add the CSS to your normal topic stylesheet; i.e. just add the .Table Style-[stylename] { width: 100%; } into whatever mediums as appropriate.

You don't need a complex selector for nested tables, since 100% means use the full width of whatever container the table is inside.

[Msquared]

Aha Jenny. Now you'll be exactly where I have been for the last couple of years. Welcome to the club!

I have hack upon hack in my table stylesheets, to fix all sorts of bugs, so daren't let Flare near them with the table stylesheet editor. Flare simply strips out your additions. If necessary, I try out what I want to do in a clean table stylesheet, then manually and painfully incorporate that into my hacked versions.

This is far from ideal because in every release since Flare 7, MadCap has made significant changes to the table stylesheets, and in order to fix other bugs, you have to let Flare update the table stylesheets, then manually rework your own hacks.

On the Flare 8 to Flare 9 upgrade, to add insult to injury, Flare corrupted all my table styles, mixing and matching bits from mediums (I have four in each of three table stylesheets) and row styles. So, for example, my sub-heading style for medium A collected some bits and pieces from my standard row style for medium B, etc. It took me days to sort it all out.

Dave's solution to add the required changes to the normal stylesheet rather than the table stylesheet isn't ideal, because one of the things that changes from release to release is the names of the various styles that Flare uses in the table stylesheets. For example, they now include both the table stylesheet name and various other bits and pieces in the name. So there's more to remember to update for each release.

I take no pleasure in hacking the table stylesheet, but I've been forced to do it because of the number of bugs and omissions I've found.

[NorthEast]

Dave's solution to add the required changes to the normal stylesheet rather than the table stylesheet isn't ideal, because one of the things that changes from release to release is the names of the various styles that Flare uses in the table stylesheets.

I don't see how that makes a difference - you're still manually adding the same CSS to get the tables working, it's just which stylesheet you add it to. I think it makes more sense to include it in a stylesheet that you have control over, rather than one that might be automatically regenerated by Flare and remove your changes.

[ChoccieMuffin]

Thanks Dave, I'll do that instantly. But Tech Support has confirmed that, in a table with a table stylesheet applied that has (in the interface) a table width of "auto", the right-most margin should reach all the way to the right but it doesn't, hence the need to specify the width of the table. And hence my complaint that the Flare UI doesn't actually allow you to set the width in the table stylesheet editor when, in my view, it should allow you to.

What pained me so much was that the Tech Support blokey didn't "get" what I was trying to tell him, despite me sending him a detailed list of what I'd done to get the result and a sample project (which I'm sure he didn't actually look at because of the answers he gave me) so it took days to find out that there are two related bugs, and I had to do my own digging to find a solution (which you have pointed out could cause problems for me down the line).

I will pass on your suggested solution to Tech Support in case anyone else hits the same problem and needs them to answer.

(And I did have to add a specific width to the print medium for a table nested in a list because an unnested table has a fixed width, but I take your point on the 100% bit.)

I'm so glad of these forums, because without your input, Dave, I'd end up completely flummoxed when my "fixed" table stylesheet suddenly stopped working! YOUR advice is what Tech Support should have told me, rather than me having to tell THEM!

Thanks again.

[Msquared]

Hi Dave,

Sorry, what I meant was that your solution of adding the changes to the main stylesheet wasn't ideal either, rather than it wasn't ideal, full stop. That is also hitting at a moving target, since MadCap keep changing table styles, so with each new version of Flare you have to revisit all your hacks. And on at least one occasion to date, a hack to fix problems with table stylesheets in one version of Flare broke something else in the tables in a newer version of Flare, and took me quite a long time to identify, even though I knew what I'd hacked and why. As Jenny says, MadCap support don't seem to be much help in this area.

For what it's worth, I am considering moving all my hacks from my table stylesheets to my main stylesheets as you suggest, but like everything else, that will take time. But at least then all the hacks will be in one place, and I may even be able to let Flare loose on my table stylesheets again.