I've never been so frustrated with buggy software like this

[trusswalker]

I've never seen so many errors in a piece of software before.
I'm stopping in the middle of my project just to vent!

I have run away Index Entries on one topic... it keeps inserting "enter" in blank fields and then tells me that "hexadecimal value 0x13, is an invalid charater. Line 1, position 65" and it won't let me save, it won't let me do anything!

When I've gone to rename topics from within Flare, it keeps hanging while trying to determine what links need to be updated... I can cancel, it puts the name back and I can try again. Maybe 1 try in 5 works.

Seriously?! This is not a good first impression. I just took your class from Scott and thought "great, this is the tool for me"... but reality is very different.

Up until now, I've been using Flare to strictly convert Frame files into online help (as a convert from WebWorks). Looks like I'm headed back that direction. Frame is old and cranky, but at least you know when you've done something wrong. At least there are automatic saves so you don't lose this much work.

Just to be clear... I'm using Flare 3.1 with all of your patches installed on WinXP with all of it's patches and service packs.

I started this project out of your default template (here's a place where you should take a cue from Apple and provide some great templates instead of a nearly empty folder. Why not offer a template of your own online help? Seriously... why wouldn't you want everybody's to look like that? Why not offer up all of those stylesheets, skins, and templates?)

If Flare 4 doesn't bring some stability to this application... I don't care if it actually interogates the software engineers for me, I just won't be able to use it.

-Steve Traut

[RamonS]

Welcome to the forums! You came to the right place!
I understand your frustration, but name one piece of software that is not broken in one way or another. I cannot think of one, not even the one I do QA on. So, let's see:
- runaway index entries: uhm, I don't know what you mean with that. Index entries are added and they don't work? How do you add the entries?
- it keeps inserting "enter" in blank fields: Do you mean that in regards to table cells? IIRC that is by design and there was a valid reason for it. But why is that a bad thing?
- hex value 0x13, line 1 pos 65: Assuming that value goes against the ASCII table ox13 is a vertical tab, which doesn't exist in XHTML. The page may render correctly, but I doubt it will validate. Can you post here what is in line 1? We may be able to shed some more light on this and let you know if it is OK to just rip that thing out. It won't let you save it now since you got an illegal character in it. Flare makes sure that anything that goes out is of quality, is allowed in XHTML, and will validate. As unfortunate as it is, Flare does what it is supposed to. Or is saving broken source files and using them for output generation something Flare should do?
- link updating: you need to see that Flare stores everything within a topic. So if you rename a file and links need to be updated Flare needs to query each topic to see if a link needs updating. There are faster ways, such as storing all that in an Access database that has the file extension changed. That is how RoboHelp did it and it sucked big time. It set you up for data corruption, getting things out of sync, and not scaling at all. Now, in Flare, when you rename a file, does the process just hang forever (meaning more than - uhm - 20 minutes) or does it eventually finish? How many topics do you have in your project?

Ah, WebWorks, tried that once and threw it out. WebWorks rapidly inhales. Frame is OK, just that the development got stuck in the 90s is a bit sad.

I do have more questions for you. Do you have your project on a network share and work off that? Or is it stored locally? Did you contact MadCap support and send that project over for them to look at? Did you file bug reports here: https://www.madcapsoftware.com/bugs/submit.aspx
Can you give us some more details as to what you do and what exactly happens, especially for the index entry issue?

Just to let you know, if history repeats itself, we will bring you out of your world of doom into a paradise of happiness...well, at least we'll get your project to work.

[Richard Ferrell]

I do ask that if you are having these issues, then Please open a support ticket.

https://www.madcapsoftware.com/support/contact.aspx

[trusswalker]

I will open support tickets when I get a moment... for the moment I'd like to reply... and probably use some of this in my tickets.

First, I don't care for flippant responses. Just because other software is broken, this software can also be broken? I have higher expectations for tools that I use on a regular basis. Additionally, from a Mac OS perspective where I truly do not encounter these kinds of problems... I know things can work better than what you may have become used to.

The project in question is stored locally. I haven't sent anything to anybody including support because I didn't know any of it was an option. Most all of this goes away if I reboot my computer... but at the times when odd things such as random errors start showing up, it's not like my computer has been on for months... typically, it was restarted eariler that day if not only a couple hours before.

The Index entries issue: In the Index Entry window, Flare itself was adding carriage returns (0x13 in ASCII) (appearing as little boxes) on its own after every error. Sometimes two at a time. I would try to delete them, but after every attempt, there was another error and more Index entries with little boxes in them. Once this started, I could no longer save that topic and the error message I mentioned started appearing-("hexadecimal value 0x13, is an invalid character. Line 1, position 65"). I have no idea to what Flare is referring to... I can only assume it's talking about the index entry stuff. Either way, there was no way to clear the error, fix the error or save that topic... let alone quit Flare because it really wanted to save the unsaveable topic.

Link updating: When changing a name of a file in the content explorer, it would just sit there and say that it was working on it. I only have 20 or so topics in a handful of folders... no biggie. And when it did work and report back that there were two other files that needed updating, it took about 1 second to find. I didn't wait 20 minutes, but on one of the hangs, around 5 minutes. After that, I would just cancel and try again. Usually on the second or third attempt it would work quickly again.

I've also seen error messages about "could not execute save command" and so on... just out of the blue... then I'd do what ever I was doing to get that error a second time and it worked.

I've seen the .NET framework just fold up and go away... then Flare followed... again, for no discernible reason.

Lastly, and I guess this one's not a bug... but should it matter where my mouse is pointing on the screen (not the cursor, but the mouse) when I'm typing? If my mouse slides over a graphic or a link or something, suddenly I can type until I move my mouse. That's messed up. Why should that matter unless I click on something. Why not pay attetion to what I'm doing instead of trying to guess what I might do and get it wrong?

Once I go find my license key... I'll go put these in support tickets.

-Steve

[Richard Ferrell]

I would also recommend that you reinstall the Dot Net Drivers on your system, and/or Upgrade to Dot Net 3.0 to see if that corrects the issue.

[LTinker68]

First, I don't care for flippant responses. Just because other software is broken, this software can also be broken? I have higher expectations for tools that I use on a regular basis.

I think RamonS was trying to put things in perspective. Every software program has bugs. It may seem to you that Flare has an excessive number of bugs, but it could be that there's one underlying problem on your system that's affecting multiple features in Flare, so it seems Flare is giving you all sorts of problems. That's why Rick from Support is recommending that you reinstall the .NET drivers -- .NET is a big backbone component of Flare. (And make sure you're installing .NET 2.0 -- that's the one that's required for Flare. If you have just .NET 3.0, then you need to install .NET 2.0.)

Additionally, from a Mac OS perspective where I truly do not encounter these kinds of problems...

Are you running Flare on a VM in a Mac? There have been some other posts regarding setting up this type of environment, but I can't remember off the top of my head if the issues were similar to what you're reporting, or something else. You might want to do a search in this forum for "Mac" and "VM" and "install".


Lastly, don't let questions/issues build up. Don't get so frustrated trying to make something work that you end up wanting to quit using Flare. If you encounter a problem or have a question, submit it to the forum. You'll find that you'll get a lot of help. And if we can't help you, then we'll recommend contacting Flare Support. And they're very responsive, too. We're all here to help.

[RamonS]

First, I don't care for flippant responses. Just because other software is broken, this software can also be broken? I have higher expectations for tools that I use on a regular basis. Additionally, from a Mac OS perspective where I truly do not encounter these kinds of problems... I know things can work better than what you may have become used to.

What I have become used to is that people say "Thank you" when one tries to help. I use the Mac OS here at work for testing purposes and while it looks nice it does as few things as other OS. There is really nothing special there except that one has to search for every little piece. Uh, and connecting to network shares on a Windows server is broken.
I had to ask many questions in my response since you did not provide that much information, I assume unintentionally. I just tried to get more information to go by and cover all those points that caused problems in the past. Also, every software has bugs, that is all I wanted to point out. That said, I hope you find someone else who helps you out despite your disgraceful attitude.

[KevinDAmery]

Additionally, from a Mac OS perspective where I truly do not encounter these kinds of problems...

Are you running Flare on a VM in a Mac? There have been some other posts regarding setting up this type of environment, but I can't remember off the top of my head if the issues were similar to what you're reporting, or something else. You might want to do a search in this forum for "Mac" and "VM" and "install".

I know that several Mac users reported having trouble running Flare under Parallels, especially with Vista. Not sure if Bootcamp or another VM tool would work better.

re: the indexing problem, I remember having that at one stage, and that a patch fixed it. So I would recommend double checking that you really do have all the patches installed just to be sure.

FWIW, Flare runs stable here (Windows XP SP2 on a Dell dual core workstation) so it can be done. I can get it to freeze if I update a lot of things at once (which is a loooonnnnggggg standing bug--right Rick?) but other than that it rarely gives me trouble--so the experience you're having isn't what I would consider normal.

[doc_guy]

Potential things you can try (one at a time to see if they solve your problem):

1. You can uninstall and reinstall the .NET 2.0 framework. (2.0 is what you need for Flare 3; the next version of Flare will probably require 3, but for now you just need 2).

2. You can uninstall Flare, then rip out the registry keys assigned to MadCap. You'll lose some custom settings, and you'll have to re-install and "re-register" your software, but that's no big deal if it solves the stability problems.

3. You can try creating a new Windows user and accessing Flare using that new account, and see if your problems persist.

Note what happens (or changes) when you do these three things, and you'll have a lot of information to give MadCap Support if you still need to contact them. I've experienced some stability problems as well, and I can tell you I understand how frustrating it is when you are working on a project. However, remember we are here to help, and Support is there to help as well. We'll all do our best to do whatever we can for you.

[trusswalker]

Okay... I'm calmer now.

I am a Mac person (home), and I run Flare on both a XP Pro machine at work and on XP Pro via bootcamp, which means that it's the same as XP Pro on Intel hardware... just Apple's hardrware instead of Dell's. I've been having issues on both. I don't run (typically) under any VM software... I should probably spread the word that if you have to, VMware Fusion is way better than Parallels, but now I'm off topic...

Hopefully, I'm turning the page on this as today, I've been given (deployed) a new computer at work (it was my turn... not because of any specific problems... this is a good company to work for) and I've set about re-installing Flare & Capture.

Here's a .NET question for you then... When I download the .NET framework as linked from the MadCap support pages and try to install it... it now gives me a message saying that it's not compatible with the version of .NET already installed on this computer.

I didn't install anything. Maybe IT did. Flare 3.1 and Capture 2.0 both seem to work fine, but I kind of get an uneasy feeling about it.

So how do I tell if I have 2.0 and/or 3.0 .NET installed?

Where can I find a list of all patches for Flare 3.1? From the support page, there is a heading for "Patches" and Flare 3.1 is only thing under it. I follow that follow that to the knowledge Base, click on Flare, click on Patches and it lists 3. Are there others?

Lastly, I do appreciate the help... That's why I'm continuing to post, ask questions and learn. It really was a terrible couple of days of use. Here's hoping it starts to go better.

-Steve

[lacastle]

If you have XP (I'm a little confused by all the different OS you were talking about), to check for .NET, click Start > Control Panel, then Add or Remove Programs. On that list, you should see Microsoft .NET Framework 2.0 and possibly Microsoft .NET Framework 3.0 (since your computer is new). My computer was new in 2007, so 3.0 was already installed. However, Flare needed 2.0, so I had install that two. From what I know, they are compatible if both are installed on the same computer.

When I first started with Flare a year ago, I didn't install .NET 2.0 since I thought 3.0 covered that, but I had a lot of installation problems and couldn't get my projects to work and we figured out it was a .NET problem. I don't understand very much about .NET, but I know it's important for Flare to work the way it's supposed to.

[RamonS]

Okay... I'm calmer now.
Here's a .NET question for you then... When I download the .NET framework as linked from the MadCap support pages and try to install it... it now gives me a message saying that it's not compatible with the version of .NET already installed on this computer.
I didn't install anything. Maybe IT did. Flare 3.1 and Capture 2.0 both seem to work fine, but I kind of get an uneasy feeling about it.

Ah ja! Much better this way. See, I'm even inclined to answer.

Depending on which OS your new PC has, DotNet is already installed as part of the OS. This message is really the dumbest possible message to show. Yes, it is true that DotNet cannot be installed since it already is installed. I guess something like usability and proper messaging went out the door when the last bright guy left Microsoft (no, I do not mean Bill Gates). It really is a non-error and cause for many frustrated support reps (I used to be one).
If indeed you do not have DotNet installed at all, you will notice it as Flare will not run. You can also check if you have DotNet installed by starting WindowsUpdate, if you don't have DotNet it will be listed as a download option.

Where can I find a list of all patches for Flare 3.1? From the support page, there is a heading for "Patches" and Flare 3.1 is only thing under it. I follow that follow that to the knowledge Base, click on Flare, click on Patches and it lists 3. Are there others?

Lastly, I do appreciate the help... That's why I'm continuing to post, ask questions and learn. It really was a terrible couple of days of use. Here's hoping it starts to go better.

Afaik that is the right place to get the patches. There may be others, but those won't be from MadCap.
Keep in mind that this forum is a peer-to-peer forum. A bunch of Flare users (mainly professionals, not hobbyists like me) come here and spend their time and effort to help out others. Yes, MadCap support is around as well, but that is really just the extra mile that MadCap's support walks. If you do have a problem and do need immediate assistance dial 911 or the support number of MadCap. They have fantastic people sitting there just waiting eagerly to answer all your questions. But they as well just try to help - and they get paid for doing that.

[Richard Ferrell]

If you are running Vista on your new machine, then you don't net the dot net 2.0 framework as its already included in Vista.

[trusswalker]

Thankfully, no... I don't have to deal with Vista yet. Just XP Pro. (I just read the other day that 83% of all Windows developers are still targeting XP Pro and not Vista when they code.)

And yes, I've been able to confirm that I have "all" of the .NETs installed.

Of course with moving everything to my new computer... I haven't had time to do anything but launch Flare to see that it runs on it.

I'll go double-check that everything is in order on my laptop as well.

Thanks for the tips and pointers... I'll let you know how it goes from here... especially on the clean/new computer.

-Steve

[Richard Ferrell]

Let us know

[KevinDAmery]

To add to everyone else's points, I would run Windows Update to see if there are any updates to .NET 2.0 that haven't been installed yet. It's possible you have a baseline install and not the latest and... uhhh... "greatest"

[forfear]

trusswalker,

You have been importing documents into framemaker into Flare. I know how its like to import projects.
The next step of the curve to pick up is the editing workflow. With a few days, you will be a real pro. It just takes a bit of indy jones exploration...

See the attached link.

I know the following document is for Blaze, but ignore a fair bit of the Blaze specific sections. i think the concepts mentioned can apply quite nicely to Flare 3.1 as well particularly for pro framemaker users like yourself. The pdf is written by a veteran Framemaker user as well, Sharon Burton, who is the product manager for the Blaze, so i imagine she knows what she's writing about.

http://madcapsoftware.files.wordpress.c ... draft3.pdf