Cross references to autonumbered tables

[Sharon_G]

Happy Friday everyone.
Here is my situation - excuse the long-winded explanation
For the print version of my project I have created autonumbered captions for my tables (autonumbering is not set for the non-print medium).
I want to be able to create cross references from other locations in the document to these tables that display as "see Table 1" "see Table 2" etc.
I created a class under MadCap|xref called "seeTableNumber" and formatted the print x-ref mc-format property to read:
see Table {paranum}
I created a bookmark in the caption of a table in one topic and inserted a cross reference to it using the "seeTableNumber" format in another topic.
The cross reference appears in the Print Layout (print medium selected) as "see Table" without the number.
When I generate the PDF it still shows up as "see Table" without the number.

(Incidentally, the table caption autonumbering is working correctly and in the PDF all of the tables appear correctly numbered, as they do in the List of Tables - so that part is working fine.)

I'm wondering if anyone knows how to get the autonumber of the table caption to show up in the cross reference?

I tried setting the heading level of the table caption as 2 or 4, the 2 shows up in the Select Place dialog that opens from the Bookmark button, but the 4 does not - though the 2 continues to show even when the value is set to 4. Restarting Flare is the only way to refresh the dialog. But none of this makes the table number display.

I've read the Help and queried previous questions in these forums, but can find nothing that relates to this. I'm thinking that it may be a bug - or something fairly simple that I've overlooked on my way down the rabbit hole of cross references.

Many thanks for any ideas you can offer.
Sharon

[KevinDAmery]

I don't think that Autonumbering adds a table number - I think it adds a paragraph number instead. (Basically, it's an alternative way of getting list numbering or heading numbering.) So instead of referencing the table number, try using the {paranum} setting.

[LTinker68]

For example, here's the print style I have for a paragraph I use as my caption. I have two styles -- one for captions for figures and one for captions for tables. The one for figures is shown below. Note the mc-auto-number-format.

Code: Select all

p.captionFig
	{
		font-weight: bold;
		margin-top: 4pt;
		margin-bottom: 18pt;
		text-align: center;
		page-break-before: avoid;
		mc-auto-number-format: 'GT:Figure {n+}: ';
		font-size: 8pt;
		color: #8e908f;
	}

And this is the custom xref class I created that includes the text "see".

Code: Select all

MadCap|xref.figureRef
{
	mc-format: 'see {paranumonly}';
}

When I put the reference into the topic, it looks similar to the following (when looking at the source code):

Code: Select all

Double-click on the example.exe file <MadCap:conditionalText MadCap:conditions="Default.PrintOnly"> (<MadCap:xref href="#LaunchingExampleApp" target="" title="" alt="" class="tableRef">see Figure 2</MadCap:xref>)</MadCap:conditionalText>. The program will launch.

The "see Figure 2" is composed dynamically. It's saying Figure 2 at the moment because it was the second caption in that topic. The actual, final figure number will change when I generate the output, so it may end up saying "see Figure 36".

[Sharon_G]

Thanks Lisa and Kevin, but I'm obviously not making myself very clear. I have already done the same things that both of you suggest. I understand that Flare doesn't do table numbers and I had to use paragraph numbering attached to the caption tag - in fact, I think I found out how to do that from a previous post by Kevin .
My code looks almost exactly like Lisa's except that mine says:

Code: Select all

mc-format: 'see Table {paranum}'

instead of

Code: Select all

mc-format: 'see {paranumonly}'

I tried with {paranumonly} instead of {paranum} but still didn't get the table number to show up in the cross reference.
My auto number format is exactly the same as Lisa's except that, instead of "Figure", I say "TABLE"
My point is that I think I'm already doing what you are suggesting - but it's not working.
Could it be something to do with the bookmark I'm using?
Any ideas?
Sharon

[Sharon_G]

Thought I'd follow up with the solution that I found to this in case anyone else was in the same position.
I created a paragraph tag with the same autonumbering properties as my caption tag and, instead of formatting the caption tag directly with the autonumber format, I placed the paragraph tag inside the caption tag and used that to contain the autonumber.
I guess that cross references only pick up paragraph tags and not table/caption tags, because having the autonumber in the paragraph tag means that the cross references now work fine, as does the table numbering and the list of tables.
Anyway, it works for me and I'm very glad tht it does.
Happy Wednesday from the frozen North!
Sharon

[Centauri27]

Thought I'd follow up with the solution that I found to this in case anyone else was in the same position.
I created a paragraph tag with the same autonumbering properties as my caption tag and, instead of formatting the caption tag directly with the autonumber format, I placed the paragraph tag inside the caption tag and used that to contain the autonumber.

Hi Sharon.

I am having similar problems as you and I'm glad I found this thread. Now I know how to auto number my figures and tables. However, can you elaborate on your solution that you described above? For example, some sample code might help. All this ad hoc maneuvering just to get cross references is fairly annoying; I hope MadCap adds proper support soon.

On a similar note, do you know how to generate a List of Figures and List of Tables within Flare? The Word output produced by Flare has the auto numbers as static text, making it impossible to use Word's TOC features unless you go in and manually enter the figure captions all over again...

Thanks in advance for any help you can give.

Cheers from a fellow Great White Northerner...

Carl Lum

[Centauri27]

I finally got my cross references to work and I thought I'd share my results with the community. Compared to Word, adding cross references to autonumbered tables in Flare is a major song and dance. My method is slightly unconventional, but it works:

1. Create two paragraph styles to caption your figures and two more for your tables. Set one to display only for "non print" and the other display for "print". (Stylesheet > Advanced View > Show: Alphabetical List > Property 'display') Say I call the styles "CapFig", "CapFigPrint", "CapTable", "CaptTablePrint".

2. Edit style "CapFigPrint" with the autonumber "GF:Figure {n+}: "; for "CapTablePrint" use "GT:Table {n+}: ". (Stylesheet > Advanced View > Show: Property Groups > AutoNumber > mc-auto-number-format) The 'G' mean global number that increments throughout the manual; the 'F' and 'T' are arbitrary letters to separate the figure numbering from the table numbering.

3. Add the two figure captions under each figure. For "CapFig" I type in the entire caption myself ("Figure 1: The Main Screen"). That's because in the online help I start from figure 1 each topic and it's easier to simply type in "Figure 1", "Figure 2", etc., rather than invoking autonumbers. For "CapFigPrint", just type in the caption label--the "Figure x" part will be inserted by Flare already.

4. For my tables, I turn OFF the table captioning (right-click table > Caption > None). This part is tricky because the table properties only show "caption above/below table". As Sharon noted, cross references to 'caption' tags do NOT work, but references to 'p' tags do work.

5. Apply the tags "CapTable" and "CapTablePrint" to the tables just like the figures (adding them above or below the table as you prefer).

6. Now, to add a cross reference to a figure or table, first insert a bookmark next to the appropriate "CapFigPrint" or "CapTablePrint" (i.e., "Fig1").

7. From the calling paragraph, you might type: "For more information, see ". After "see", right click > Cross Reference. Under Cross-Reference Properties click "New" and create a new XRef class (e.g., I called mine 'figureRef'). For XRef format, use "{paranumonly}".

8. In the "Link to" section, select a target, then select the bookmark "Fig1". Dismiss all the dialogs. You should now see "For more information, see Figure 1". The "Figure 1" will be updated upon print to reflect the correct numbering.

9. To add other cross references, repeat steps 6-8, only in step 7 you don't need to create another XRef class--just select 'figureRef' from the list. This method should work equally well whether referencing figures or tables.

So there you have it--cross referencing in Flare in 9 easy steps (and umpteen substeps). I hope this will save some of you a few hours of head scratching and teeth gnashing.

Carl

[LTinker68]

A lot of that you didn't need to do. You don't need two sets of styles for each set of captions. All you need is what you specify in step 2 -- create two auto-number styles, one for figures and one for tables. Just change the setup of the auto-numbering to control how it appears in online (default medium) versus print (print medium). After you insert a figure or table, you add a new paragraph, type the text for the caption, then apply the appropriate paragraph class that has the auto-number format.

For instance, in the stylesheet, I have the following styles declared:

Code: Select all

p.captionFig
{
	font-size: 0.7em;
	font-weight: bold;
	margin-top: .4em;
	margin-bottom: 2.0em;
	text-align: center;
	color: #8e908f;
	page-break-before: avoid;
}

p.captionTbl
{
	font-size: 0.7em;
	font-weight: bold;
	margin-top: .4em;
	margin-bottom: 2.0em;
	text-align: center;
	color: #8e908f;
	page-break-before: avoid;
}

@media print
{
       p.captionFig
	{
		font-weight: bold;
		margin-top: 4pt;
		margin-bottom: 18pt;
		text-align: center;
		page-break-before: avoid;
		mc-auto-number-format: 'GF:Figure {n+}: ';
		font-size: 8pt;
		color: #8e908f;
	}

	p.captionTbl
	{
		font-weight: bold;
		margin-top: 4pt;
		margin-bottom: 18pt;
		text-align: center;
		page-break-before: avoid;
		mc-auto-number-format: 'GT:Table {n+}: ';
		font-size: 8pt;
		color: #8e908f;
	}
}

Note that the caption styles not inside the print medium don't have an mc-auto-number-format declared, so whatever I type as the caption is what appears in online output. For print output, however, they're preceded with "Figure n: " or "Table n: ", where n is the next sequential number. You can use auto-numbers for online output and just have them sequentially number in a single topic instead of across topics like you would in print.

[Centauri27]

Thanks, Lisa! That does help simplify things. I knew there was a better way.

Now, do you know if there's a way to generate a "List of Figures" and "List of Tables" when I create my Word output? As it stands now, the "see Figure xx" that appears in Word is just static text--I cannot use Word's Insert > Table feature to create a TOC for my figures and tables.

Carl

[LTinker68]

In v4 they introduced a List-Of proxy that I believe is for inserting List of Figures and List of Tables, although I personally haven't used it yet. I think it's kind of like a mini-TOC (basically a list of cross-references) except you tell it which style is used as the basis for the list. So one list-of proxy would create the list based on the p.captionFig styles (using my style examples) and the other list-of proxy would create another list based on the p.captionTbl styles. I think that's the theory behind it anyway.

If you don't have version 4 or later, then you can manually create lists, but it would require you to insert bookmarks at every figure and every table and you'd have to manually insert cross-references to each bookmark. Which would be a PITA. Hopefully you have Flare v4.

[Centauri27]

Thanks, Lisa. But it turns out I was mistaken: it is possible to create a list of figures/tables in Word without using the embedded figure/table codes. The static output from Flare works fine. (I should have known better, but I've never created figure lists any other way in all my years of working with Word... )

I do have Flare 4, so I'll give your suggestion a try one day.

Carl

[Phlawm53]

If anyone is still following this thread, can he or she please comment on whether the inability to cross-reference to autonumbered table captions still exists in Flare 6?

It certainly seems to still be an issue: I have my table captions nicely auto-numbering, but can't cross-reference to the numeric portion of the autonumbers (as distinguished from the "Table " text part of the x-ref which does appear in an inserted x-ref).

Given that this thread was for version 4, and last updated in 2008, I'm hoping some easier way than the method described in this thread is no available...(?)

Cheers & thanks,
Riley

[Centauri27]

Hi Riley.

Are you trying to cross reference only to the numeric portion of your table caption? For example, "Table 23: Audit Codes". Did you only want the '23' portion or 'Table 23'? If it's the latter, I have been successfully cross referencing to that since Flare 5. What I did was this:

1. Insert a bookmark next to the table caption. This part is important.
2. Do an Insert > Cross-Reference.
3. Select my inserted bookmark.
4. Under 'Cross Reference Properties', I've created a new XRef class that I call "XreftoCaption", which has an XRef format of "{paranumonly}". I select this class. The preview area should show "Table 1" (or whatever the table number is in the topic).
5. In the topic, the cross reference shows as "Table 1". But in my Word or PDF output, it gets updated to "Table 23" or whatever the actual table number is.

If you want only the "23" part without the "Table" label, I'm sure you can do it somehow but I've never given it any thought--after all, there should always be a label like "Table" or "Figure" preceding the number. (Minor mystery: I'm not even sure why Flare is dragging along the "Table" part of the label when the XRef format is "{paranumonly}", which implies only the numeric part of the paragraph. But happily for me, the end result is what I want, so I'm not going to argue.)

Hope this helps.
Carl

[LTinker68]

(Minor mystery: I'm not even sure why Flare is dragging along the "Table" part of the label when the XRef format is "{paranumonly}", which implies only the numeric part of the paragraph. But happily for me, the end result is what I want, so I'm not going to argue.)

Paranumonly refers to the text you insert in the auto-number-format field of the tag. It's kind of misleading because you can enter text in that field, but it fits because it's call the auto-number format. Most likely your auto-number-format field has something like Table: {n+}, so the paranumonly field will return Table 1, Table 2, Table 3, etc.

If you want the xref to reveal just 1, 2, 3, then your auto-number-format can only have {n+}, without the word Table in front of it.

[Phlawm53]

Carl:

I believe I'm performing the same steps as best I can and it just doesn't seem to be working.

1. I have configured my caption to autonumber via (without the quotes) "C:Caption {Gn+}: ". This creates a counter "C", that G-Globally autonumbers across topic-file boundaries. I've tried the autonumbering definition both with and with the ": ", for what it's worth. The key point is that the autonumbering of my table captions seems to be working just as I want 'em to.

2. I then position at the beginning of the caption text. This is to the immediate right of the autonumber that appears in a caption: I can't position the insertion point to the left of the autonumber, so I'm assuming that's what's mean by "Insert a bookmark next to the table caption"(?)

3. I then create a cross-reference, choose a cross-reference named MadCap:xref.TableNumber, select the bookmark, and click OK. I've tried both paranumonly and parnum -- paranum at least produces a number in the cross-reference editor, but nowhere else.

Flare inserts an x-ref entity / marker / tag of the form "<MadCap:xref></MadCap:xref>". This doesn't seem correct compared to using an autonumbered paragraph and cross-referencing to it: Doing that produces a textual cross reference which not only looks "righter" in the editor, it's works properly in any generated target.

4. If I then generate the content, nothing appears where the "<MadCap:xref></MadCap:xref>" x-ref entity occurs in the source document.

In summary, the "bad" behavior in my instance of Flare 6 appears to identical with the "bad" behavior described by the original poster for version 4.

At other times, I've done lots of FrameMaker cross-references and HTML hyperlinking to named anchors so I think I understand the principles involved. But I am new (and generally happy) Flare user who for some reason can't x-ref to table captions in Flare 6…

Cheers & thanks,
Riley

1. Insert a bookmark next to the table caption. This part is important.
2. Do an Insert > Cross-Reference.
3. Select my inserted bookmark.
4. Under 'Cross Reference Properties', I've created a new XRef class that I call "XreftoCaption", which has an XRef format of "{paranumonly}". I select this class. The preview area should show "Table 1" (or whatever the table number is in the topic).
5. In the topic, the cross reference shows as "Table 1". But in my Word or PDF output, it gets updated to "Table 23" or whatever the actual table number is.

Hope this helps.
Carl

[LTinker68]

1. I have configured my caption to autonumber via (without the quotes) "C:Caption {Gn+}: ". This creates a counter "C", that Globably "G" autonumbers across topic-file boundaries. I've tried the autonumbering definition both with and with the ": ", for what it's worth. The key point is that the autonumbering of my table captions seems to be working just as I want 'em to.

You're not formatting that correctly. The global counter character "G" is supposed to be at the front of the auto-number format. It's immediately followed by a single-character ID, which cannot be a G or a C, since those are counter IDs. So your correct format should be GA:Caption {n+}, where "G" is the global counter character, "A" is the new ID for this auto-number format, "Caption" is just a word you want to appear before the number, and "{n+}" is for incrementing the number. When you apply this class to your text, you should see in the topic Caption 1: blah blah blah. (With blah blah blah being your caption text, of course.) You won't see the final, actual number for that caption until you build the output. If you insert a second caption in the same topic, then the second would show the incrementing number, so it would be Caption 2.

2. I then position at the beginning of the caption text. This is to the immediate right of the autonumber that appears in a caption: I can't position the insertion point to the left of the autonumber, so I'm assuming that's what's mean by "Insert a bookmark next to the table caption"(?)

3. I then create a cross-reference, choose a cross-reference named MadCap:xref.TableNumber, select the bookmark, and click OK. I've tried both paranumonly and parnum -- paranum at least produces a number in the cross-reference editor, but nowhere else.

I can't tell if you're skipping a step in number 2 or doing this wrong. In step 2, you put your cursor before your caption text (blah blah blah), then go to Insert > Bookmark. You didn't mention that part, so I'm not sure if you actually inserted a bookmark or tried to place a xref there. You name the bookmark (without spaces). In step 3, you put the cursor where you want the reference to that bookmark to appear. For instance, if in the paragraph before the image you have something like, "As shown in Caption 1...", you put the cursor after "in", then go to Insert > Cross-Reference to insert a xref to the bookmark you created earlier.

[Phlawm53]

Lisa:

Thanks -- for a start I fixed the autonumbering so that it is now "T:Table {n+}: " And I am indeed positioning the insertion point at the beginning of the free-form caption text, then inserting a bookmark.

I then go into a line of text ("p" tagged) above the table and try to create a cross-reference. But the cross-reference tool doesn't seem to pick up the caption autonumbering. OR even the caption.

BUT, I have discovered something else. For a start, note that I have created a table-specific x-ref and clicked (rather than fat-finger-typed) the selectors that define the x-ref as {paranum} or alternatively {paranumonly}.

But when I select the bookmark I placed at the beginning of the caption text, the preview doesn't show an autonumber -- when I click OK, all I get is the <MadCap:xref></MadCap:xref> tags.

HOWEVER -- If in the Insert Cross-Reference tool I select, for example, MadCap:xref.ParaTextOnly, THEN I get ALL the preceding text in the (test) topic file I've created for this exercise. That is to say, that the ParaTextOnly returns all the text (and I do mean all) in the topic file EXCEPT the caption autonumber. (In other words, the autonumber seems to have acquired especially powers of invisibility…

So I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong, but I'm obviously making a fundamental mistake. This is especially annoying because I'm usually good at figuring out tools, yet this one has me thoroughly confused…

Cheers, thanks, & have a GREAT weekend,
Riley

[LTinker68]

I fixed the autonumbering so that it is now "T:Table {n+}: "

You're going to want to add a C or G before that T. Otherwise, the first table in each topic will be Table 1, instead of incrementing from the previous topic in the chapter or project.

You'll see <MadCap:xref></MadCap:xref> in the topic if you didn't select the item you're xref-ing to. So if you selected the xref format but didn't click on the bookmark before closing the Insert Cross-Reference screen, then you end up with an empty xref because it doesn't know what you're xref-ing to.

Here is an example of how all the code will look (you'll need to open the stylesheet file and topic file in the Internal Text Editor to be able to compare the codes). Say you have the styles below, with an auto-number format for a table caption and a xref format to be used in conjunction. (Styles are minimized for this example.)

Code: Select all

p.captionTbl
{
      mc-auto-number-format: 'GT:Table {n+}: ';
      text-align: center;
}

MadCap|xref.numOnly
{
	mc-format: '{paranumonly}';
}

You apply the auto-number format class (captionTbl) to the paragraph and insert a bookmark called TblBookmark, and the code for that caption will appear like the following. It will show "Table 1" as the autonum parameter, but that's really just a placeholder, or rather, how it appears currently in this topic, but will change when you build the output.

Code: Select all

<p class="captionTbl" MadCap:autonum="Table 1: "><a name="TblBookmark"></a>Important Information</p>

You then put your cursor where you want the xref to appear, go to Insert > Cross-Reference, select the bookmark to xref to, then select the xref format. The resulting topic code will appear similar to what's shown below. Again, the Table 1 is just the placeholder and will change when you build the output.

Code: Select all

<p>The information is displayed below in <MadCap:xref href="#TblBookmark" target="" title="" alt="" class="numOnly">Table 1</MadCap:xref>.</p>

[Phlawm53]

Lisa:

Thanks but I'm giving up for now.

The key point, I think, is that I can cross-reference to table numbers IF I create a style named p.TableCaption, configure auto-numbering for that style, then cross-reference to it with the same cross-reference format that doesn't work when used in conjunction with table captions.

So for non-table-caption things, I'm successfully doing all the U.I. things that have been offered as the way to make x-ref'ing to table captions work. Alas, when trying to do the very same things for table captions it just doesn't work -- and in a big way.

And I just don't have the time to hand-edit CSS right now. So I'll use my correctly autonumbering p.TableCaption style along with the cross-reference to the {paranum} that works as intended when used with that p.TableCaption style. Later, when I don't have to get some content out I'll come back and play with the tool some more. Sigh...

Cheers, thanks, & have a great weekend,
RBV