Is Active -X required?

ktbCA57 · Post by **ktbCA57** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 8:32 am

2 issues:
1) We are just building our first project with Flare... and noticed that when we open the CSH or HTML output files, it requires enabling of Active X controls. We don't want our clients to have to deal with that, etc...
Now, mind you, the files we have been opening that require the Active X control are stand-alone, not incorporated into the our application - so perhaps once incorporated, the Active X isn't an issue?

Can someone please clarify this?

2) I can open both the CSH and HTML out put files (that require enabling of Active X). However, when i sent the files to someone else to look at, the files would open a window (and ask for Active X enable), but nothing would appear in that window.
Why might these be? I have Flare installed on my system... but it shouldn't require Flare installation to view these standalones - should it?
I know these are very basic questions... and I may be (probably am) missing something TOTALLY OBVIOUS... but i am admittedly lost at this point.

Thanks for any feedback you can provide.

kb

Post by **RamonS** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 8:40 am

Which output do you create? CHMs, WebHelp, and so on all use HTML files and most of the outputs are also CSH capable. That information will help with answering the questions.

KevinDAmery · Post by **KevinDAmery** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 8:51 am

Also, if it is WebHelp, is it installed on the user's local drive or will it be accessed over a network? The reason I ask is there will be a security warning if they are accessing it from a local drive using Internet Explorer (which may be what you are referring to). If this is the case, you need to ensure that the Mark Of The Web (MOTW) feature is enabled to avoid the security warnings.

Installed locally: MOTW = On
Installed on a network or over the internet: MOTW = Off

ktbCA57 · Post by **ktbCA57** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 8:55 am

I'm not sure what I will need to be creating as an output in the final result... I'm just getting started... this particular project was created by someone else and she apparently output it as html and csh... we are a "java" shop.. so i anticipate that we will need webhelp...

in the output folder there also exists a mcwebhelp file... an XML file, and a JS file.. none of which i can open... well.. let me take that back, the XML opens a browser window with the following contents:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8" ?>
<WebHelpSystem DefaultUrl="Content/Welcome.htm" Toc="Data/Toc.xml" Index="Data/Index.xml" Concepts="Data/Concepts.xml" Glossary="Content/Glossary.htm" SearchDatabase="Data/Search.xml" Alias="Data/Alias.xml" Synonyms="Data/Synonyms.xml" Skin="Data/SkinHTML Help Window/Skin.xml" Skins="HTML Help Window" BuildTime="1/14/2009 1:39:16 PM" TargetType="WebHelp" MoveOutputContentToRoot="false" MakeFileLowerCase="false" />

in rainbow colors!

as for how we will use it.. our application is web-based - thin client... so we don't want users to have to download anything.

does this information help clarify anything? i really feel totally lost... never had these issues with RH so i'm not sure what i'm doing wrong.

thanks...

ktbCA57 · Post by **ktbCA57** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 9:05 am

I just checked the MOTW setting... it is not enabled (off)... so shouldn't we be able to view the output file (e.g., csh or html) without the Active X issue coming up... or have i misunderstood this as well?

Thanks for your patience.

Post by **LTinker68** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 9:16 am

ktbCA57 wrote:I just checked the MOTW setting... it is not enabled (off)... so shouldn't we be able to view the output file (e.g., csh or html) without the Active X issue coming up... or have i misunderstood this as well?

CSH isn't an output type. It stands for context-sensitive help. It's a way of tying the help into your application, so that if the user is on the configuration screen, for instance, then he can press the F1 key or a help button in the app to launch the help directly to the topic related to the screen the user is in. So if he's in the configuration screen, then he sees the help page for the configuration screen, instead of the welcome screen in the help.

Not having MOTW enabled won't prevent you from viewing the help -- it just means that if it's disabled and you try to open (run) the help from your computer, then you're going to get the yellow bar at the top of the IE window. You can click on that bar and tell it to allow the content and then you'll see the help. You don't get that warning at all with Firefox or other browsers, just with IE. And you'll only get it in IE if you don't have the option to run web applications from the computer enabled in the Internet Tools screen on the computer.

So if you're going to be distributing the help to your users to be run from their own computers, then you need to have MOTW enabled before you build the WebHelp output. If the users will be running the WebHelp output from your web server, then you don't need MOTW enabled. (In fact, doing so causes other problems.)

For internal testing, you might want to create two WebHelp outputs, one with MOTW enabled and one with it disabled. As you're writing content and testing it on your computer, you build using the WebHelp target that has MOTW enabled. When it's ready and you want to send it to the server, you build with the WebHelp target that has MOTW disabled.

ktbCA57 · Post by **ktbCA57** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 9:31 am

ok... now i'm obviously a real idiot because i didn't know that wasn't an output file.. i guess i assumed that because she placed it in her "output" folder... so what IS an output file then? i tought a csh was similar to a chm... etc...

so what type of file would i distribute for internal review vs. what i would distribute for inclusion into a web based app? i'm very confused now... perhaps i should go back to RH.. i sort of got that stuff a bit better?

i'm sorry to be such a ditz about all this...

KevinDAmery · Post by **KevinDAmery** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 9:31 am

The reason for all this, by the way, is that some time ago Microsoft discovered (or maybe were forcibly shown...) that there were potential security risks when running some types of web content on a local system. So in typical Microsoft fashion, rather than address the underlying security issues, they just blocked off all local web content. This may well be safer, but it meant that webhelp wouldn't work anymore. So then they came up with the MOTW setting to fool the browser into thinking that the content was really on a network rather than local.

Basically, it's like the put up a permanent "lane closed" sign on the road rather than just fixing the potholes, but then gave us a pass card to let us get by the sign if we wanted to.

Post by **LTinker68** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 9:52 am

ktbCA57 wrote:so what type of file would i distribute for internal review vs. what i would distribute for inclusion into a web based app?

Well, now you're getting to the point where you need to evaluate the output types and decide which one is best for your situation. And you don't need to use just one output. I create WebHelp output for "online" interactive help, and create a PDF version of the same help (with minor differences) so that users can print out the whole thing. However, for internal SME review, I generate a plain Word output so that the SMEs can turn on track changes and make modifications, which I then integrate into the help.

On another project, I just created HTML Help (.chm) output because it was a small help that would be installed on the same computer as the application and it didn't need a lot of bells-and-whistles, so a single output file worked best in that situation.

It's been years since I've used RH, but I think it has some of the same output types as Flare, so it's not that this is all new, it's just that you have more options with Flare. But it sounds like your RH project was used to create a web-based help, which is what Flare's WebHelp output is.

ktbCA57 · Post by **ktbCA57** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 9:57 am

thanks Lisa..

for internal review... i need to push out a standalone help.. they need to evaluate the way the project looks and acts before including it or pushing it out for clients' use... so a Word doc wouldn't work... i need an actual standalone... when i open the CSH and HTML files.. they behave (for me) as standalone... which is why i sent them to someone else to look at.. but all he got was a blank window... so why did that happen?

I'm still not getting what an output file is if it isn't either the csh or html files that appear in the output folder...what am i looking for then? as i said.. the mcwebhelp (sounds like something you would order at mcdonalds) only opens a window of html-looking code.

i'm apparently more lost than ever.

Post by **Andrew** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:17 am

What HTML file are they double-clicking to open the help?

ktbCA57 · Post by **ktbCA57** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:25 am

the file is actually called ApplicationHelp.htm

the csh file is Application Help_csh.htm

both of these work for me.. but neither for him...

also.. there is an ApplicationHelp.xml file - that's the one that just opens up the html-looking code.

here's what i see in the output folder... and don't know to do with them...

files in output folder.gif

Post by **Andrew** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:55 am

Sometimes opening the wrong file for me has resulted in seeing only a part of the help, rather than all of it, ApplicationHelp.htm should be the right file.

ktbCA57 · Post by **ktbCA57** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:45 am

and he should just be able to double click that.. right? and MOTW is turned off for this compilation... so it should just be ok.. and open right up.. am I understanding that correctly?

however... altho i can open it.. i do get the active X error/option...

maybe I'll try recompiling/building the file again with MOTW turned ON/ENABLED.. .and see what happens.

bottom line... Active X isn't required..

1) i can have programmers integrate the online help in our web based app and not have the Active X be an issue... correct?

2) in addition, I should be able to distribute the html file as a standalone and not have Active X be an issue.. is that also correct?

ktbCA57 · Post by **ktbCA57** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:49 am

another thing i just read in the online help...

Adding Mark of the Web
Mark of the Web (MOTW) is a comment added to the HTML markup for a web page. When users open the web page from their local machine, Internet Explorer references this comment to determine the security zone in which it should run the page. This means you can deliver WebHelp or WebHelp Plus output without your online Help initially being blocked on the user's machine with this security message:

Normally, the user would have to click on this message and select Allow Blocked Content to view your Help system. By adding MOTW, you can avoid this situation.

However, please note that if you have links in your project to non-HTML files (e.g., DOC, PDF, JPG, GIF), those links will not work with MOTW enabled. Therefore, MOTW should not be used unless the links in your project are limited to HTML documents only.

so... Active X isn't necessarily an issue.. UNLESS i have links to other docs or images (non-embedded images i hope) that are anything but HTML...

correct... ?

oy...

Post by **LTinker68** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:52 am

ApplicationHelp.htm is the one to use. Application_CSH.htm and Application_Left.htm are both used if you're making a CSH call to the help. Say you have a topic called configScreen.htm with the title "Configuration Screen". There are two ways to get to that topic (not including the search and index features).

Option 1

Your application runs the ApplicationHelp.htm file to launch the WebHelp output. The help with the navigation pane, toolbar pane, and main topic window will appear (or however you configured the help window to appear). The "welcome" topic is visible in the main topic window.
The user clicks on a book in the TOC pane to expand the book, if necessary, then clicks on the "Configuration Screen" topic, which opens the configScreen.htm file in the main topic window.

Option 2
Your application runs the ApplicationHelp_CSH.htm file, with the topic name or map ID appended to the file name (e.g., ApplicationHelp_CSH.htm#configScreen). The help with the navigation pane, toolbar pane, and main topic window appears, but instead of the "welcome" topic, the "Configuration Screen" (configScreen.htm) topic is already visible in the main topic window -- the user doesn't have to navigate to it in any way.

At some point during Option 2, "ApplicationHelp_CSH.htm" in the browser URL field changes to "ApplicationHelp_Left.htm". Don't ask me why -- never figured that out.

So, when you put the output folder wherever you're going to put it (the user's computer or a web server), you would include all three of those HTML files. The first one (ApplicationHelp.htm) would open the help to the "welcome" topic, like when clicking Help > Contents in many applications. The _CSH one is for opening the help to a specific topic (making a CSH call), as when you press F1 or go to Help > About this Screen (for example) in an application.

The ApplicationHelp_Left.htm, ApplicationHelp.js, ApplicationHelp.xml, and ApplicationHelp.mcwebhelp are support files. They would also need to go with the other files. They just wouldn't be used to launch the help.

Post by **Andrew** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:53 am

ktbCA57 wrote:1) i can have programmers integrate the online help in our web based app and not have the Active X be an issue... correct?

If the help is on a web server, there typically won't be any problem with ActiveX. Just make sure you do not compile that target with MOTW enabled.

2) in addition, I should be able to distribute the html file as a standalone and not have Active X be an issue.. is that also correct?

As standalone, you mean as a set of files that someone will open on their local machine? You should be fine if you are not linking to non-HTML-based files, just make sure that the target for that has MOTW enabled.

Hope that helps.

ktbCA57 · Post by **ktbCA57** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:05 pm

Thank you all for your help... and PATIENCE!

i think i have the general gist of the idea... and hopefully won't have any more questions for you.. but you never know...

THANKS OH-SO-MUCH!

KevinDAmery · Post by **KevinDAmery** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:09 pm

As was mentioned, you need MOTW if the help is run locally, but you need it to be *off* for when it's on the server. So what your technician is seeing is normal; since he is running it locally, the security settings in Windows are blocking it. If you published the same system to a web server, he would have no trouble.

ktbCA57 · Post by **ktbCA57** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:11 pm

sorry...one more...

to be able to use "attached" files - specifically Word or PDF docs... there will be an Active X issue...

is this the case if the attached files are "included" in the project only?

here's my reason for asking this... we want to create some sort of a way for our CLIENTS to attach documents to our online help (so we would create "place holders" as such and the clients would then create a link to their own network so that their users could then click on the link and access the pdf or Word doc)

In such a case... is Active X (since the docs will more or less reside OUTSIDE the online help itself) still be an issue?

Thanks,

ktbCA57 · Post by **ktbCA57** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:12 pm

yes.. he's running it off the network.. i'm going to try turning MOTW on and see what happens then.. THANKS!

ktbCA57 · Post by **ktbCA57** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 1:51 pm

ok... there is still the issue of nothing showing up on the windows... I sent the applicationhelp.htm file to a friend to try.. i sent him both enabled and disabled MOTW versions... both opened windows.. but there was nothing IN the windows... just blank... however the MOTW enabled version didn't create the active X issue... so that part seems to be solved.. by why are the contents not showing up for anyone but me? he tried both directly from the email and downloading the file onto his system.. neither worked.

help!

Post by **Andrew** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 3:01 pm

ktbCA57 wrote:ok... there is still the issue of nothing showing up on the windows... I sent the applicationhelp.htm file to a friend to try.. i sent him both enabled and disabled MOTW versions... both opened windows.. but there was nothing IN the windows... just blank... however the MOTW enabled version didn't create the active X issue... so that part seems to be solved.. by why are the contents not showing up for anyone but me? he tried both directly from the email and downloading the file onto his system.. neither worked.

help!

Okay, I'm pretty sure this isn't the issue, but just-in-case-it's-that-simple, are you sending them ONLY the applicationhelp.htm file, or are you sending ALL the files? If so, how are you sending them?

ktbCA57 · Post by **ktbCA57** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 3:11 pm

only sending that one file... I thought it would behave like a "chm" file does with robohelp... i need a standalone file... what sort of file is standalone that doesn't require me to send a bunch of support files? is there such a thing? THERE MUST BE!

Thanks... sorry AGAIN.. if i'm just being the most gigantic idiot on this!

Post by **Andrew** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 3:15 pm

If you are using any version of WebHelp, then you will need to send all of the files. So if you post it to the server, post all of the files, and link only the applicationhelp.htm file.

For a local copy, you would have to provide all the files, and the user would double-click on applicationhelp.htm.

You can, if you want, build a CHM file from the same source files as the WebHelp. Simply create a new target and change the type to HTML Help (HTML Help is a CHM).

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