page layout issue

[ddiemetric]

I created an 8.5 x 11 graphic and placed it in the background of the "first" page in my page layout, which is also 8.5 x 11. However, the graphic appears smaller, more like 7 x 9. I did not adjust the graphic in any way. Why does it appear smaller in Flare and in the target PDF?

Any ideas, anyone?

Thanks.

Deb D.

[LTinker68]

For some really odd reason, the page layout does some type of conversion to your image. It converts the DPI or pixels or something. It can go the other direction, too -- your images could be way too large, especially if the image is 300dpi (or anything more than 96dpi). What you have to do is right-click on the frame containing the image, select Properties, then specify the width and height for the image.

[Andrew]

It treats all background images as 96 DPI, near as I can tell. So if you create a 8.5 x 11" image in Photoshop, and it is 300 DPI, the image is going to look waaaay bigger than the actual page. You have to either set the image as 96 DPI in your image editor, or play with the size (in inches) until it looks right.

[ddiemetric]

Thanks very, very much! It was driving me nuts!

[ddiemetric]

By the way... do you know if this is a known bug, or should I submit a report?

Thanks again.

D.

[LTinker68]

It's arguable as to whether it's a bug* or just a bad design idea or lack of foresight, but I'd definitely submit a feature request. The more of us who request it the more likely they'll be to implement the change, and sooner rather than later. Submit the bug/feature request at http://www.madcapsoftware.com/bugs/submit.aspx.

*Yes, RamonS, I know, if it causes problems for the user then it's a bug.

[Andrew]

I've come to think of it as a bug, but I'm not sure I did originally. I'm not sure if I originally submitted it as a feature request or a bug, but I did submit one or the other about it. You should definitely submit a bug report (or feature request), because the more feedback MadCap gets about a feature, the more likely they are to act on it.

[SG]

I don't believe this is a bug. What you are seeing is pixel-math in action. The same will happen in Photoshop:

Paste a 2 x2 inch 300ppi image into a 72ppi image, and the 300 ppi image will be larger in the 72ppi file. The application must do something with all those pixels crammed into the 300ppi image.

SG

[LTinker68]

True, but the underlying point is that page layouts are for print output, so why does it even have pixels anywhere in the page layout? Pixels are for online output. The page layout should use points or inches (or better yet, let you choose).

[Andrew]

I don't believe this is a bug. What you are seeing is pixel-math in action. The same will happen in Photoshop:

Paste a 2 x2 inch 300ppi image into a 72ppi image, and the 300 ppi image will be larger in the 72ppi file. The application must do something with all those pixels crammed into the 300ppi image.

SG

It is a bug if you think that it's a bit silly to have your print output tools assume a DPI/PPI of 96. That's the side I'm sort of falling on. *Most* print graphics I've seen (aside from screen caps) are 150+ DPI.

[LTinker68]

*Most* print graphics I've seen (aside from screen caps) are 150+ DPI.

Or 300dpi. But nowadays most printers do well with 150.

[rob hollinger]

It treats all background images as 96 DPI, near as I can tell. So if you create a 8.5 x 11" image in Photoshop, and it is 300 DPI, the image is going to look waaaay bigger than the actual page. You have to either set the image as 96 DPI in your image editor, or play with the size (in inches) until it looks right.

This is exactly correct.
Print is configured off DPI.

Maybe a good feature request would be to have the ability to set the DPI of the layouts so you can be consistant with your images.
I know PhotoChop requires that.. back ground set to 72dpi and 28"x32" - I spent a few hours finding out my 300dpi images were Monsters.
Once I have both the canvas and the image the same dpi - life was easy..

[ddiemetric]

It is a bug, if for no other reason, than for usability. Not all writers understand graphics. In addition, many people who are migrating from FrameMaker aren't used to having to actually calculate graphic sizes. I think the online help could use an infusion of information on this topic. The Flare help indicates what you need to do if you are using Capture with Flare. However, not everyone uses Capture. For example, a lot of my artwork is done in Illustrator.

I agree that the best solution is to have a setting available for importing graphics. A primer in the online help would also be beneficial.

Thanks all.

Deb D.

[KevinDAmery]

It is a bug, if for no other reason, than for usability. Not all writers understand graphics. In addition, many people who are migrating from FrameMaker aren't used to having to actually calculate graphic sizes.

Not sure I'd agree with that 100%. <soapbox>Back when I was using Frame, you did have to determine what DPI to set the graphic to so that it would print the correct size. As for not all writers understanding graphics... well, you could say that all of Framemaker is a bug because writers who have only used Word before don't understand it. What needs to change in that case? Does Frame need to become like Word, or do the writers need to learn how Frame works? I don't see that this is any different: if writers are going to use graphics in their work, it behooves them to learn something about how to handle graphics. </soapbox>

Now, could Flare's handling of print res graphics be better / more intuitive / easier? Absolutely. If I were in charge of that are of Flare development, I'd take a look at how Frame, InDesign, and Quark handle images and make sure that Flare is as good or better than the best of those in each aspect of it (currently it's pretty far off). Flare's handling of graphics for print seems to have been designed by someone who's never had to create print output and doesn't think they need to learn it.

I think the online help could use an infusion of information on this topic. The Flare help indicates what you need to do if you are using Capture with Flare. However, not everyone uses Capture. For example, a lot of my artwork is done in Illustrator.

I agree that the best solution is to have a setting available for importing graphics. A primer in the online help would also be beneficial.

Complete agreement here.

[forfear]

i agree too!


kevin, the man in charge of development would be a Mr mike right?

[KevinDAmery]

I'm not really sure who does what internally at Madcap, but afaik Mike certainly does have some significant input

[Andrew]

Yep, Mike Hamilton.

This page layout DPI issue seems like something that should be included in a knowledgebase article.