Who is outputting directly to PDF?

[garyjgeoaccess]

Just curious ...

How many people are now outputting directly to PDF?

We are in the process of converting to PDF output. We'll probably still be using FrameMaker to a limited degree for the next few months. But our goal is to completely move away from FrameMaker and do our print output from Flare in PDF format. I've been generating PDF for all my docs for about three months now. The rest of our technical writing team is now starting to prepare their projects for PDF output.

Before, we had to do a lot of post output work in FrameMaker. Several hours worth of cleanup every time we did a build. Now, we've eliminated the post build cleanup. This is huge.

I'm wondering are others going this same route?

Best,
Gary Johnson

[ccardimon]

Over here (raising hand).

[LTinker68]

I'm outputting directly to PDF. I never had FrameMaker, so previous to Flare v4 I had been outputting to Word and then using Distiller to make the PDF. I much prefer bypassing Word now because you can do a lot more with the layout for PDF output than you can for Word output. The only post-processing I do is to hide the bookmarks pane and add info to the file properties, features which will hopefully be added in the near future in Flare, since at the moment you can only make those mods if you have Adobe Acrobat.

[ccardimon]

The only post-processing I do is to hide the bookmarks pane and add info to the file properties

Might I ask how this is done?

[garyjgeoaccess]

Lisa:

Like you, I still need to do some post-build work in Acrobat, as you described, with file properties and other settings (page numbering, for example). And like you, I hope to see this functionality incorporated into Flare in the future. (I guess I need to make an enhancement request.)

[ccardimon]

I hope to see this functionality incorporated into Flare in the future. (I guess I need to make an enhancement request.)

MadCap must be inundated with requests and bug notices that sound quite mad. However, I got a very nice note back from them that said they were looking into my feature request and might very well put it into action. I guess they do read these things.

[LeslieT]

I am currently working on building a project, along with all of the necessary CSSs, page layouts, etc. so that we can output both Help and PDF directly from Flare. It will be awhile before I have it all worked out so that I can reproduce what we are able to generate from FrameMaker. Pagination is the main issue I am tackling now -- the "avoid" setting for breaks does not seem to be very consistent and I am getting page breaks in places that I do not want them.

In the meantime, we will continue to author in Frame, generate PDFs, and use Flare to generate WebHelp from the Frame source.

[ccardimon]

Pagination is the main issue I am tackling now -- the "avoid" setting for breaks does not seem to be very consistent and I am getting page breaks in places that I do not want them.

The AVOID property is problematic for me, too. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Sigh.

[doc_guy]

I'm also outputting directly to PDF. And I do some post build work in Acrobat, but only for the versions that will be going out to the customers, no the interim builds I do for testing or for the developers. They can live with wrong metadata

I LOVE the direct to PDF output in Flare. Love it.

[forfear]

We output direct to PDF too. no major issues.

and sometimes in Word DOC, so that other people in the departments can copy/paste portions of our 'professional words and reuse our work in their own proposals to fit their needs.



Be warned if you are attempting multi-column page layouts

Make sure you do a sample review of your pages generated in PDF. because there are some minor issues, i.e. if you are attempting some multi column page designs.

Linear page one column page designs are fine.

Some publishing teams use an indent Body by 2 inches and put Notes/Cautions and subheads to the left of the column (indented 0 inches). (the side bar)
With these designs, that use divs, the notes might appear near the bottom of the page, but don't get transferred to the next page column. they just scroll off into the bottom of the page. and disappear.

post a bug request if you are delving deeper into multi column page designs.

[Nita Beck]

I'm going directly to PDF with the same wee bit of postprocessing that Lisa reports, which I do in Acrobat Pro. Although I've struggled a bit getting Flare to break pages, hyphenate, etc. correctly, I'm quite pleased with the results.

For review output (individual topics or sets of topics), I output either to PDF or to Word, depending on the preferences of my clients/SMEs.

When I'm ready to have the entire document go out for a final review, I'll build the entire PDF.

FWIW, I'm actually single-sourcing both a PDF manual and a "WebHelp" manual from the same Flare project. All of the content is identical, but one set of users will use the printed version in their trucks as they install equipment in the field, while the other set of users will use the WebHelp version in an office setting as they use a web application.

Nita

[forfear]

FWIW, I'm actually single-sourcing both a PDF manual and a "WebHelp" manual from the same Flare project. All of the content is identical, but one set of users will use the printed version in their trucks as they install equipment in the field, while the other set of users will use the WebHelp version in an office setting as they use a web application.

Nita

That sounds really nice.

What sort of post processing can you/would you do in Acrobat? i've only known Acrobat as a PDF file generator.

[garyjgeoaccess]

Paul said:

I LOVE the direct to PDF output in Flare. Love it.

Yes, I much, much prefer going directly to PDF vs. going to FrameMaker and then PDF. All the post-build work in FrameMaker was throwaway work. I've now eliminated almost all the throwaway work. Now, I can generate a new PDF as often as necessary while incurring a minimum of post-build throwaway work. That is a huge, huge difference.

And forfear said:

Some publishing teams use an indent Body by 2 inches and put Notes/Cautions and subheads to the left of the column (indented 0 inches). (the side bar)
With these designs, that use divs, the notes might appear near the bottom of the page, but don't get transferred to the next page column. they just scroll off into the bottom of the page. and disappear.

Yes, we ran into some issues. We have sideheads (using float:left). But we've worked through those issues. It meant we had to create a few new styles to accommodate the sideheads. It took awhile to figure it out, but it's now working.

[garyjgeoaccess]

Nita said:

I'm actually single-sourcing both a PDF manual and a "WebHelp" manual from the same Flare project.

Yes, we are doing this also. We produce multiple PDF manuals (10 or more variations) from the same project (using different targets, tocs, and conditions, all drawing on the same group of topics). We also produce WebHelp. This process is working out quite well. It takes awhile to really get your mind around using conditions on topics for each target audience. But it works.

[garyjgeoaccess]

What sort of post processing can you/would you do in Acrobat? i've only known Acrobat as a PDF file generator.

After the PDF is generated, you can use Acrobat's Document Properties settings to add title, author, subject, and keywords to the PDF. You can set the document security. You can set the initial layout and magnification. And other stuff like that. You can also use the PDF Optimizer to squeeze down the size of the PDF. I wish Flare would handle some of this stuff. Ideally, some of this stuff could be set in the target properties in Flare.

[garyjgeoaccess]

LeslieT said:

I am getting page breaks in places that I do not want them.

Yes, page breaks are problematic. We still have to output to PDF and then check the doc to make sure the page breaks are okay.

We have some styles for grouping that prevent breaks. But sometimes, typically because of dropdowns, we can't always apply grouping as we'd like. And we're left with no alternative than to use inline page breaks. We don't like 'em, but we use them as a last resort.

We produce multiple docs from the same project, and while inserting an inline page break into a topic might produce the output we want, this same page break might cause an unwanted page break in another target/doc. This is the one area, where we still need to fiddle with the PDF output. Testing it a few times before we get all the kinks worked out.

[forfear]

LeslieT said:

I am getting page breaks in places that I do not want them.

Yes, page breaks are problematic. We still have to output to PDF and then check the doc to make sure the page breaks are okay.

We have some styles for grouping that prevent breaks. But sometimes, typically because of dropdowns, we can't always apply grouping as we'd like. And we're left with no alternative than to use inline page breaks. We don't like 'em, but we use them as a last resort.

I agree. Its a known bug. And i've logged it a few times over the years. That and the other thing about divs in sidebars that appear near the bottom and overprinting past the page margin and then to never appear on the next page

[forfear]

I urge you and anyone that has experienced this to post this up into the Bug form

http://www.madcapsoftware.com/bugs/submit.aspx

[LKupka]

I'm outputting to PDF and then linking that PDF to a topic in the same project's WebHelp output. This gives users an easy way to print all topics from Help. I also do a bit of post-processing with Acrobat Pro. I change the initial view, clean up the metadata, and set some security options.

Lorraine
Certified MAD for Flare V4
Author of Five Steps to MadCap Flare

[garyjgeoaccess]

Lorraine said:

I'm outputting to PDF and then linking that PDF to a topic in the same project's WebHelp output. This gives users an easy way to print all topics from Help. I also do a bit of post-processing with Acrobat Pro. I change the initial view, clean up the metadata, and set some security options.

We're doing exactly the same thing with our docs. Works well.

[Andrew]

We output directly to PDF. It was the only way for us to consider using Flare for our print material.

[Doug Eaton]

Yes, I much, much prefer going directly to PDF vs. going to FrameMaker and then PDF. All the post-build work in FrameMaker was throwaway work. I've now eliminated almost all the throwaway work.... It took awhile to figure it out, but it's now working.

I agree. I chose Flare because of the FrameMaker workflow option, but I have given it up in favor of direct-to-PDF publishing, which is much faster. I generally create WebHelp with multiple PDF outputs. Getting the PDFs to look like our Frame-formatted docs (sidehead margins, two-level page numbering, multi-level chapter numbering, properly sized screen captures, etc.) has been a real challenge, but I am now seeing that single-sourcing may indeed be possible without using a secondary app for post-processing.

[forfear]

i've posted a few bug reports on the side head margin - page flow issue i discovered.

If it gets fixed, i think Flare will be a much more worthy contender than any other HATT. in fact i think Flare should no longer be a HATT, but simply be a professional XML-based publishing solution.

that's quite a long name

HATT's have this whole shareware'ish image to them which i can't seem to shake the image off out of my head.

[Sharon_G]

Ditto to what other folks are saying. We are creating PDF (various formats) and Help output (HTML Help, moving to WebHelp) from the same source and I am happy with how it is working out. The ability to do this was one of the driving reasons that our company invested in Flare in the first place.
There is definitely a need for Flare to give the user more control over the PDF job options, and it would definitely be a well received enhancement to be able to do the post-processing that I now do each time I generate the PDF for a rev that matters (metadata, page numbering etc) once - and be able to use the same parameters every time.
I agree with the user who said that it takes time to get your head around the different media, conditions etc. but it is definitely worth it . Along the way I have learned to document everything - all those small tweaks add up and are easy to forget.
S.

[helen]

I used to go to Word and then PDF but I now go straight to PDF and like others, tidy up the properties afterwards and check the page breaks. 99% of the time it's perfect.