slow, slow, slow

[tmartin92]

Hello,

My name is Tom and I'm tech writer from New Jersey. This is my first post. I just got Flare installed a few weeks ago because my company wanted to use XML structured authoring. (Even though the topic files are actually .html files, but that's another topic). Honestly, I'm not too happy with Flare. After reading all the positive reviews about it over the past few months, I'm pretty let down. Anyway, here's my question:

Flare runs painfully slow. Everything from starting up to compiling. What's especially slow is the preview function. Any idea what I may be doing wrong here? It's a new project, so there's not many topics. No images, no multimedia. We have up-to-date PCs here, too.

Regs,
Tom

[Madwoman]

Is your pc a pentium 4? How much memory do you have? Which version of Flare? I am running Flare v2.5.1 and the only slowness I have is starting Flare (it is a little slow, maybe 4 seconds) and the Index search. We have a large Index and 11 projects merged so it sometimes takes a 2-3 seconds to display in the output. But I can share w/ you my performance settings for the target if you feel that your output is slow.

Building and publishing is very fast. I always check 'Upload only changed files' when publishing.

I have 1.49 GB of RAM on my Flare pc.

Also, is your project on a network drive or local on your C drive?

Flare does take a little getting used to but as a former software tester and RoboHelp author I am now quite happy.

[doc_guy]

Most users who complain about speed are usually trying to store files on a network and access them over the network (which is MUCH slower than working locally, especially if you have to do it over a VPN [at least, that is MY experience]).

Here is what I do:

I use the same version control software as the engineers; they carved out a space for my documentation. I check my source files (not any output files!) into the version control system. I keep a local sandbox copy that I update locally. Every day I commit my changes to the version control system. With a few drawbacks, this is a great system. I get to work on my local machine (my laptop) so I can work anywhere, with or without a network connection. When I'm ready, I upload to my version control, knowing that if anything goes terribly wrong at any point, I've got the version control as a backup.

Once I started using version control software, I decided that I'll never go back. Backed up networks don't even compare in usefullness. And since the engineering group is likely using source control anyway, you can just tie into whatever they are using.

[doc_guy]

Oh, and welcome to Flare and the Flare forums. Let us know how we can help!

[Richard Ferrell]

Dear Tom,


Are you using any Source Control programs? Does this happen on other users system?

[tmartin92]

Thanks for your responses. I use Tortoise SVN as source control, but I work locally and then post to it. (I don't work on the network.) I'm on Flare 2.5. The PC has a Celeron processor (2.4 ghz) and 512 mb of RAM. Do I need more than 512mb? I have 29gb of hard disc space available. The installation seemed to go OK, so I'm not sure what's going on. Maybe I'll try to reinstall. I'm also in contact with our help desk to see if they can find anything. I'll keep you posted.

Overall performance is slow. For example, even when I type it takes a while for the characters to display. This doesn't happen right away; it normally starts after I've been working for an hour or two. Building the target on a relatively small project can take up to 5 minutes.

Anyway, thanks again. Just wanted to see if anyone else had experienced this problem. Must be something on my side I guess...

[doc_guy]

What else are you using on your system while Flare is running? I believe (not positive on this, but this is my memory) that Flare requires 512 MB of memory as a minimum standard. I am using 1 GB of RAM to give my OS some space to run and so I can run other programs as well while I'm running Flare. So while you technically meet the 512 requirement, I wonder if you wouldn't find that performance improves if you were to switch to a computer with more RAM, or if you upgraded the RAM in your primary work station.

I dunno. Hope this helps.

[Richard Ferrell]

Do you have any anti virus programs runing, it could be trying to scan the HTML files of your flare project and slowing it down

[RamonS]

Also some more basic questions...when did you degunk the drive last and did a defrag on it? There is tons of garbage that applications and Windows itself leave behind that gum up the works. Unfortunately, Flare cannot be excluded from the list.
Try deleting temporary files and defrag the drive. I am always impressed how much impact this has.

[KevinDAmery]

The PC has a Celeron processor (2.4 ghz) and 512 mb of RAM.

Not to get picky, but that's hardly what I'd call an up-to-date PC (to quote your first post). 2.4 GHz Celerons came out over 3 years ago. For production work I'd consider that an antique.

And I would definitely recommend more than 512 MB of RAM. You have to run the OS, Flare, and any other applications (including your company's application if you need to run it while your documenting) all in that amount of memory. Personally, I consider 1 GB to be the minimum just to run Windows these days, let alone any apps on top of that.

I'm running a 3 GHz dual-core Xeon (based on the Core architecture) here with 2 GB of RAM. Performance is not an issue, even when I am running Flare, Word, Excel, a browser with multiple tabs, virus scan, and my company's app all at the same time. Basically, I'm running the same hardware as our developers use.

[RamonS]

Basically, I'm running the same hardware as our developers use.

Well, you are a developer! Just because you do not crank out object-oriented code and stored procedures doesn't mean that your work can be done with less resources. I work with a 3.4 GHz P4 and 3GB RAM, which I think provides a fair amount of power. I definitely recommend upping the RAM amount.

[LTinker68]

I can definitely tell you having an older CPU and not having extra RAM makes a big difference. My home computer is a Pentium III. Can't remember how much RAM. But it's definitely slooooower than my work computer. I also have a home automation program running on my home computer that runs on the .NET platform, too. I'm assuming having two programs using the .NET platform at the same time isn't a problem, but it is a Microsoft-designed platform, so it's possible that that also slows down Flare. At one point I couldn't even install Flare if the other app (and .NET) was running, but MadCap fixed that problem.

[trent the thief]

Hi,

Check these things:

1. Verify that your local anti-virus is not scanning .htm/.html files.
2. Verify that any network anti-virus scan is also configured to exclude .htm/.html.
3. Disable QoS on XP.
4. Add another 512MB of ram.

IMHO, 512MB is not sufficient to run anything serious if you have XP. If your box is controlled by your IT department, you might want to ask them to take a close look to see which if any services they can remove. Every bit of RAM is precious in a low-memory situation. Also, as Ramon mentioned, a defragging is important. Use a defragger that will defrag the MFT and the pagefile. You certainly can't afford to be thrashing the cache if you want to see any speed.

[KevinDAmery]

Basically, I'm running the same hardware as our developers use.

Well, you are a developer! Just because you do not crank out object-oriented code and stored procedures doesn't mean that your work can be done with less resources.

Exactly the rationale I used when they asked me what kind of system I needed. And as you can see, it worked....

[tmartin92]

Thanks much for all your replies. It sounds like the consensus is that my PC is the culprit. Unfortunate, since my system is within the system requirements that MadCap lists for Flare 2.5. I'll definitely try all your suggestions and report back if there's any change. Most likely, I'll just request some more RAM.

Thanks again,
Tom

[trent the thief]

Hi Tom,

Yes. Minimum requirements.

Always build computers, houses, and spacecraft above minimum code.

[Andrew]

The problem will only get worse as your project grows larger. RAM is most likely to be holding you back. Unless your drive is ridiculously fragmented, it's unlikely to be a problem.

You guys all have such wonderful systems for production work. I'm stuck between an oldish Terminal Server with a dozen other users, and a desktop from 2000.

[trent the thief]

I've been there, believe me. At one point a couple years ago, I was building a 20000 topic robohelp project on a pIII with 512MB. It took almost 4 hours a build.

[RamonS]

....until RoboHelp crashed without giving an error message. That is what happened to me more often that I'd needed.

[trent the thief]

I was trying to maintain a positive face

[Andrew]

I didn't have many problems with RoboHelp crashing. Flare crashes much more often than RH did, in my experience. But the crashes really have very little effect on my work.

The RoboSource Control server, on the other hand, drove me insane. I created a template in our IT case logging software just so I could send my semi-weekly request to restart the service without writing it out...again. Then, there's the lost time waiting for IT to respond as three writers can't update the help until the service gets restarted.

[trent the thief]

I can't number the lost hours trying to implement RSC. I liked the tight integration, but it was too weak.

[tmartin92]

OK. The extra RAM seems to be doing the trick. (We added another 512MB to my 512.) This is especially true for the build function. The problem I was having with the characters -- appearing slowly as I typed -- is much better, though it's still gets a bit sluggish if I don't reboot from time-to-time. I can live with that.

Thanks so much for all your help. Down the line I guess a better PC will improve things even more. As a writer with a small start-up, however, software, extra memory, and new PCs aren't always possible. Getting Flare was not easy, and I guess that's why I was a bit disappointed when this performance issue came up.

Someone in a previous post mentioned to \"always build computers, houses, and spacecraft above minimum code.\" Good advice. But I'm just building an online help system. I guess my point is that Flare's system requirements should be adjusted to reflect reality. I had to eat some crow after pushing for Flare and then having to explain to my boss that it wasn't running right. Luckily, he was fine with adding RAM to my system; so there is no harm done.

Thanks again for your help,
Tom

[trent the thief]

I'm glad that advice helped. Several months ago my desktop died and needed repair. While it was being worked on, the IT dept gave me a loaner. It was an older, slower box, but with twice the RAM. I used it for an entire publish cycle (PDFs and help). My own box came a couple days prior to the next publish cycle. The difference was very drastic. The old high RAM box appeared twice as fast as my hot rod with half the RAM.

Now I'm running a dual-core and 4GB. I'm using the /3GB switch in boot.ini so that my apps get 3GB instead of the expected 2GB allocation in a 4GB system. It's _much_ faster than either desktop I used.

RAM doesn't always fix everything, but it goes a long way in that direction.

[Andrew]

Is Flare aware of the /3GB switch? If the app isn't aware, I'm pretty sure it's limited to 2GB.